Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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WildWood ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Nov 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 136 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 19 Dec 06 at 10:10am |
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Why do boat builders always launch new boat types rather than promoting existing designs? The dinghy market is so diluted with different types of boats that people don't seem to know what to buy. The number of different classes available doesn't seem healthy for the racing scene. Obviously design development is healthy and classes such as I14's, N12's Cherubs etc provide valuable advances and keep some people interested. I wonder at the benefit that new boats that manufacturers like Laser, RS, Topper etc seem to keep launching year on year. It seems to me that they draw a few people from other classes to them without actually bringing any new people into the sport. This results in the diluted market and makes it harder to find good one design racing, which is without doubt better than racing on handicap. IMHO manufacturers would do better by encouraging new people into the sport by promoting the stregths of their existing designs. This brings new money and enthusiasm to the sport and provides better competition for those already taking part. |
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Guest ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
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I quite agree but I suspect it's easier to sell 100 boats of a new design than it is to sell another 100 of an existing design ... and companies exist for the benefit of the shareholders ... So if the above is the case then suppliers are giving the market what it wants. It's the sailing public who drive this ... if they didn't lap up the new designs then the manufactures would soon stop as I am sure it's pretty expensive to bring a new boat to market. So the question is ... why is there such an appetite for new classes in the UK sailing public when we already have many good ones? Well in some cases a new boat offers somthing that no existing boat can but in many cases the new class seems to be going into an already crowded area ... Perhaps we Brits like to be big fish in small ponds ... Rick
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combat wombat ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 345 |
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There is a huge appetite for the "newer and faster" in the UK, and
therefore when a new boat is launched we love it. The fact is,
there are many new boats that offer either exactly what existing boats
do, but they are new and shiny and hence get bought. The older
boats residual value goes down the pan and the nationals attendance
drops to nothing.
Contrast this with the US where they have extremely well established older classes (ie Laser, FJ, 420, 505, I14). Newer classes find it extremely hard to get a foothold (ie RS have virtually no presence in the US, Laser only sell "the Laser" and the Laser II, boats like the Musto have a look in but no impact as of yet). My feeling is that UK sailors want the newest boat in the dinghy park. Me, I want the cheapest and fastest ![]() Thats why my boats were designed in 1986 and 1967. |
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B14 GBR 772
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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There's more to it than that though. Newest and fastest actually doesn't sell that well in general, which is why the mass manufacturers have more or less given up on them in favour of mass market plastic boats. I'd argue that most of the new classes have offered something different, if its only bowsprit kites. If you look at the boats at the top of the YY Nats attendance chart about the reasonably successful competitor for an existing class is the Laser 4.7 against the Topper. There's been, for instance, no attempt to introduce a new two sail two hander to compete with the Enterprise et al.
The US dinghy scene is far from healthy. The biggest and richest country in the world, and practically the only medals they can win are in the keelboats where there is so much less competition. They complain about how the rich Brits win the medals because they have so much money! Participation nationally in dinghies is poor, instead they do mcuh more sailing in leadmines. They have a huge college sailing scene which is pretty much all college owned boats, maintained by employees, which is a tremendous amount of money but seems to generate few top class sailors... I'm coming to believe that an appreciable number ofpeople, if they don't have the opportunity to sail the boat they want to sail, in practice don't sail at all rather than sail something else. And also that the number of people who don't sail because there's no boat they want to sal is a lot bigger than the number of people who don't sail because there's not a fleet of 100 xxxs at their local club. Edited by JimC |
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combat wombat ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 345 |
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Maybe so, but IMHO the newer classes recently released have only introduced gimmicks to make them different from the established classes, nothing ground breaking. Essentially just a rehash of what has been done before, remarketed. You may not agree with me but the more new plastic fantastics are released to keep profits high just damages the existing scene. I never said that dinghy sailing in the US was healthy, merely that there are well established classes that people stick to. It is true that US dinghy sailors are green with envy of the UK scene, and so they should be. |
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B14 GBR 772
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ifoxwell ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 05 Jan 06 Location: Hoo Online Status: Offline Posts: 669 |
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For the average sailor handicap racing also has some advantages. Mr Average will probably never beat Mr National Champion in a strict one design class but with all the imperfections of handicap racing he has a chance on those days that favour his boat. This keeps the large pool of average sailors interested because they can always dig up the story of how they had a great result way back when… Granted for those of us that like a good race and just get more determined by being beaten by the better sailor it’s frustrating to dilute the fleets but I suspect a large proportion of sailors aren’t that serious. Ian |
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Simon Lovesey ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 30 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 349 |
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The sailing world has fallen for the Marketing mantra "New is Best", of course those in know realise that this is not always true, just witness the number of posts about new classes and faults with them, whereas the strong established classes iron out design issues over time. The big manufacturers also prefer to introduce a new class because they will have a monopoly on that design and won't be directly competing with another suppleer. Most have at one time produced racing Optimists, all now have given up and sell their own equelivent. Most manufacturers also prefer to be able to control the class rules. You may gleam something Steve Cockerill's from press release I have serious concerns that we are seeing a collapse of grass roots sailing through a lack of class racing at many clubs, building a time bomb. Those entering our sport increasingly will start in a new design, but find no class structure or fleets at their local club. They then don't get the support and encouragements that fleets bring, so unlikely to use their shiny new boat much, let alone go on the circuit, just look at the championship numbers, bar the RS200 all traditional classes. Strong club fleets encourage newcommers, the real competition is not another type of boat but another sport or activity
Edited by Simon Lovesey |
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MikeBz ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536 |
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I agree. The effect of this is that fewer and fewer people experience racing - they sail around a race course on their own which becomes pretty boring pretty quickly unless it's blowing old boots or the boat they chose is genuinely extreme (foiler Moth, 12/14/18ft skiff). End result - they aren't captivated by sailing and soon move on. Mike |
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English Dave ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 06 Location: Northern Ireland Online Status: Offline Posts: 682 |
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There is a difference now in the way people use their leisure time. Compared to dinghy sailing's hayday of the 1970's people are cash rich and time poor. Whether it is true or not the image of dinghy sailors is that of white middle class pipe smoking middle aged men. That is not an aspirational image anymore and so is impossible to market, especially when you are trying to pitch it against other distractions such as Xbox, easyjet weekends abroad, golf and premiership football. It is difficult to persuade a newcomer to sailing that sailing an Ent or GP is cool. Sailing a 49er is cool but beyond the reach of beginners. So to bring more people into the sport you have to have boats that are both "cool" and straight forward to sail. I don't see that from many traditional symmetric kite boats. If you are seeking to stick with "established classes" then you are saying no to any development of the sport. And if that happens dinghy sailing will die. New designs have always been thrust on the market and after the summer med season has finished and the boat show is over they are subject to the same Darwinian "sink or swim" as the others. Some survive, some don't. And club fleets are not God given, they evolve and grow and then maybe shrink and disappear. And handicap racing is better than no racing. |
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Merlinboy ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Jul 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3169 |
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I think there will always be a market for these new "pointless" boats, mainly because they are developed by such big players in the dinghy market, They are as a rule of thumb allot cheaper then boats like enterprises, GP14's etc. They also are easier to sail, generally maintance free etc etc. I dont have a problem with them because they are a cheap hassle free way to get more and more people into dinghy sailing, it helps break down the opinion that it is a rich mans sport. I think what you tend to find is that people buy them learn to sail and would move into a more established "older" class once they know whats what.
I mean come on look at the sails pitch to people which arnt in the know - Big glossy brochures, fast neat looking boats. and then you look at the enterprise etc. It just looks old fashioned.
I think if you look at the older classes there attendance tables dont drop. So it cant be harming them. |
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