Can you help me?

   Hi,
At the moment I am writting an essay for my uni course. The subject of which it covers is manufacture, materials and design. The basis of it is comparing composites, GRP, FRP, kevlar and carbon fibre to wood. And I'm using the subject sailign dingys as an example. There a few questions that I'm finding really diffucult to find and also I'm including personal preference for which material do people prefere if they had a choice considering looks, performance, maintenance etc.
Does any one know when the first GRP boat was produced?I found the Soling produced the first 5 GRP boats in 1966 but I dont know whether that was first 5 GRP Solings (I know they didnt produce wooden ones) or whether that was first for all sailing dinghys.
It would be useful to also have price differences in one class about having an identical boat in wood and GRP (something like a Enterprise or Graduate or similar) to compare prices. I'm finding it really diffucult to find prices online (I should probually contact companies and ask but Im a student and therefore lazy  ).
And personal preference. If you could help I would be really grateful. When I use any info off here I will reference it back to this page and reference from you, so when you post you are giving me permission to use it (thats all that out of  the way!!). 
Many thanks
Claire

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Europe GBR351 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 26 Apr 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote Europe GBR351 Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Can you help me? Posted: 26 Apr 06 at 1:34pm
	Hi, At the moment I am writting an essay for my uni course. The subject of which it covers is manufacture, materials and design. The basis of it is comparing composites, GRP, FRP, kevlar and carbon fibre to wood. And I'm using the subject sailign dingys as an example. There a few questions that I'm finding really diffucult to find and also I'm including personal preference for which material do people prefere if they had a choice considering looks, performance, maintenance etc. Does any one know when the first GRP boat was produced?I found the Soling produced the first 5 GRP boats in 1966 but I dont know whether that was first 5 GRP Solings (I know they didnt produce wooden ones) or whether that was first for all sailing dinghys. It would be useful to also have price differences in one class about having an identical boat in wood and GRP (something like a Enterprise or Graduate or similar) to compare prices. I'm finding it really diffucult to find prices online (I should probually contact companies and ask but Im a student and therefore lazy ). And personal preference. If you could help I would be really grateful. When I use any info off here I will reference it back to this page and reference from you, so when you post you are giving me permission to use it (thats all that out of the way!!). Many thanks Claire

BigFatStan Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 31 Jan 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 78	Post Options Post Reply Quote BigFatStan Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 06 at 3:36pm
	Didn't take me 5 minutes to find reference to dinghies built in GRP around 1950 - do some work ya lazy student type.

rogerd Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 25 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1076	Post Options Post Reply Quote rogerd Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 06 at 4:46pm
	Put a post on cvrda.org there is a wealth of dinghy history on there. Or wait for Rupert to post you a reply.

Boatboy Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 27 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 15	Post Options Post Reply Quote Boatboy Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 2:17am
	the first real reference i can find to a boat built in grp is 1954 on scott baders website scottbader.com thats a big boat though 16.8m, but i believe the first boats where being produced in the late forties. in terms of cost it depends entirerly on materials used a fully finished mahogany boat will cost more than a ply boat in the same way a boat built out of choppy will cost a lot less than a nomex cored carbon skinned vessel and your best bet is to ring around and ask. you might need to be quite specific about the type of wooden boat you are looking at aswell as the type of frp boat just as a material cost guide on the frp side glass currently costs about £3 per sq metre (200gsm) and carbon in the region of £20-£30 per sq metre (200gsm) not that many purely aramid boats around still unfortunatly it doesn't like compression can't actually think of anyone building purely in aramid at the present time maybe someone can correct me personal preference i would build my next boat out of pre-preg carbon with a nomex and foam core if i had the money to do it, but it will probely end up as vac bagged carbon with a foam core. this is mainly on performance as its painted anyway so that takes care of looks its also so easy to maintain, repair and modify as well. bb

olly_love Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 18 Jan 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1145	Post Options Post Reply Quote olly_love Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 4:16am
	i always thought that the first glass and carbon boats were the 14s and the 18s
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Europe GBR351 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 26 Apr 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote Europe GBR351 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 7:52am
	This is great thanks. I found that info about the on the Scott Bader website thanks. I also found out that GRP was first introduced in the Second World War with it being put onto planes to replace some plywood, and then it was applied to boats after that. I will have a look at the history of the 14's and 18's cheers. If I had a choice my Europe would be built out of carbon (to make it even lighter ). The info your giving me is great THANKYOU! The essay has to be in tomorrow (this wasnt posted last min or anything but it will be done!! Many Thanks Claire

olly_love Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 18 Jan 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1145	Post Options Post Reply Quote olly_love Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 8:24am
	What course are you doing. i have just done an allnighter on marine stability of a whitbread 60. shame i went out first and got a bit peeved. it isnt too bad for a drunken attempt
	TWO FRANK-Hunter Impala

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 9:03am
	Here's a refence to a very early fibreglass boat builder in the UK. http://www.woodenboatassociation.com/TOD%20Boats.htm The next thing you need the look at is when cored construction came in as opposed to solid. I believe that was in the US in the late 60s but don't know. On the skiff side there's a paragraph on the bottom of this page on early cored boats in NZ/AUS http://www.sailingsource.com/cherub/des60.htm And there's an article on one of the very first cored homebuilt boats in the UK http://www.sailingsource.com/cherub/dsteele.htm But I've heard that Hobie Cats or something of the like were factory mass producing cored catamarans long before that date. I seem to remember that one of the early long distance catamarans was foam core too.

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 9:51am
	In Britain at least, the Kestrel, in the late 1950's, was one of the 1st sucessful boats designed for building in GRP, but I'm sure many boats had been adapted before that. Many early glass boats had flaws due to a lack of knowledge of the building materials, and were both weak and heavy. Finding info on these would require much research, so therefore I don't suppose it will happen... If I dare mention Dinghy Sailing Mag here, they are running a series of articles on lost classes which may well cross over into this territory. Just dug out my 1958 dinghy year book, and there is an article in it about plastic construction of dinghies by John Westall (505 designer). He is explaining the concept, which suggests that pre 1957, it was rare indeed, and he discusses foam sandwich as a theoretical concept.
	Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

Chew my RS Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790	Post Options Post Reply Quote Chew my RS Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Apr 06 at 10:01am
	If it helps any, the Wineglass was also designed in 1958/9 specifically for GRP construction, but I guess the 505's may have been fibreglass by then too. I have a 1943 book about dinghy design written by an I14 sailor (so leading edge) which doesn't mention GRP at all, so my guess is sometime between 1944 and 1958.