Safety cover

   Hi folks,Does our sailing club need to provide rescue/safety cover when club racing? We have a couple of rather shiny RIBS which take alot of uptake.
Is there a legal necessity to provide it . We have the usual 'all sailors and boats launch at their own risk' etc..

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fudheid Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 21 Apr 11 Location: 51.53 N 01.28 E Online Status: Offline Posts: 241	Post Options Post Reply Quote fudheid Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Safety cover Posted: 23 Apr 13 at 7:36pm
	Hi folks, Does our sailing club need to provide rescue/safety cover when club racing? We have a couple of rather shiny RIBS which take alot of uptake. Is there a legal necessity to provide it . We have the usual 'all sailors and boats launch at their own risk' etc..
	Cheers you only me from over the sea......

RichTea Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 22 Jan 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 207	Post Options Post Reply Quote RichTea Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 23 Apr 13 at 8:31pm
	Inland or sea? A boat should be available on standby with people ready to helm if needed. There is a ratio that if you are an rya club you need to adhere to. For the formal answer, the RYA is where you want to go.
	RS200

Kev M Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 05 Dec 11 Location: Landlocked Online Status: Offline Posts: 346	Post Options Post Reply Quote Kev M Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 23 Apr 13 at 10:48pm
	There is some RYA rule about any more than six boats in a race and you need to have safety cover I think.
	Successfully confusing ambition with ability since 1980.

Medway Maniac Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788	Post Options Post Reply Quote Medway Maniac Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Apr 13 at 12:01am
	In view of the sheer varietsy of circumstances that can arise, the RYA seems reluctant to set any definite ratios of safety boats to competitors. Thus the RYA Race Management Guide at http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/Racing/RacingInformation/RaceOfficials/Resource%20Centre/Best%20Practice%20Guidelines%20Policies/Race%20Management%20Guide.pdf states: Patrol Boats The number of patrol boats at an event depends on the competition level, age, ability and number of competitors, anticipated conditions, etc. There is no recommended ratio as there are too many variables to consider - so it's a matter of common sense and judgement. The patrol boats should be of a design and size appropriate to the task -RIBs are commonly used If they were prescriptive, of course, there would be a danger that a club might be blamed for not following the fixed guidelines even when they weren't appropriate to their situation.
	Wilsonian SC 3000 Class

fudheid Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 21 Apr 11 Location: 51.53 N 01.28 E Online Status: Offline Posts: 241	Post Options Post Reply Quote fudheid Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Apr 13 at 7:52am
	Thanks, as a sea club we spend a significant amount of money on Ribs for safety. We generally have two on the water at any one time (So two crews to find as well). In the document it states: SAFETY Whilst the boats are entirely responsible for their own safety (RRS 1, RRS 4 and standard safety SIs) the RO has ultimate responsibility whilst on the water for the duty of care held by the Organising Authority. as the club is affliated to the national body then when racing we are liable - hence the public liability insurance.... hmmm more thinking...
	Cheers you only me from over the sea......

transient Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715	Post Options Post Reply Quote transient Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Apr 13 at 9:04am
	We're on the sea. If racing we have to put at least 1 rib out to lay the marks......I'm assuming you have fixed marks? It must save a lot of time. During free sailing, if there are only a handful of people out, we have a small rib on standby on the beach.

Contender443 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 01 Oct 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1211	Post Options Post Reply Quote Contender443 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Apr 13 at 10:18am
	We have one boat out on the sea to lay the course and oversee the sailing. This can be for up to 40 boats. The second RIB is on the beach ready to go. When it is needed it is launched by whoever is around. Generally this happens when the wind picks up and people start to retire due to the wind strength. Or they have broken something. In most cases the safety cover only provides a watching brief and do not actually do anything as most people self rescue. So you can have quite a high ratio of sailing boats to safety boats.
	Bonnie Lass Contender 1764

fudheid Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 21 Apr 11 Location: 51.53 N 01.28 E Online Status: Offline Posts: 241	Post Options Post Reply Quote fudheid Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Apr 13 at 10:41am
	yep fixed marks - although they have gone missing this winter....Does mean quick to set courses although there not always great for the wind angle. We have a river start and then out to sea quite so we are in large area and some times vision is reduced from the crows nest at the club. the thoughts were:- back in the day we had no safety cover, alot more boats racing, why can't we just organise a flash race on a weekend if the weather is nice and facebook/internet have got a few like-minded people down for a blast. We need to inform the sailing committee and the rescue officer and by the time the general committee get involved it is binned! The SI's stated that every club boat must carry a paddle and anchor and flares even with 4 & 5000 sailing the committee boat could be 15mins away from rescue Self sufficiency was key. Now we seem to spend our weekends trying to raise money for the upkeep of said safety boats and new engines/ tubes etc...
	Cheers you only me from over the sea......

Buzz Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 14 Jun 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 101	Post Options Post Reply Quote Buzz Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Apr 13 at 2:18pm
	We sail on the sea as well and lay a triangular and windware leeward course. We have either two or three ribs out plus a shore based beach master when we run racing. We also have a named race officer and safety boat coordinator. Edited by Buzz - 24 Apr 13 at 2:24pm

pondmonkey Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 12 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2202	Post Options Post Reply Quote pondmonkey Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Apr 13 at 2:25pm
	I think the OP is asking what is the legal minimum, not what we currently do vs our ideal. As I understand it, there is no legal requirement to have rescue cover for a group of guys out sailing and racing each other. I've certainly been in yacht races with zero rescue cover, the start boat goes on a jolly for the duration of the race. However you would need to check various frameworks a club may have signed up to- for example: - is the club formally established with a charity/HMRC Ltd status? - what criteria does the RYA require for their registered clubs? - what disclaimers are in place? - what age are the participants and is the RO in 'loco parentis' for under 18s - what clauses exist within the club's various insurance policies? - does the club have a written code or rule on this, and by ignoring it, you have defrauded the paying member? lots of questions... probably best cover your arse and run the Ribs.