Personal Handicap

   Hi ChrisJ et al, dunno if this counts as flagrant spamming but everyone does use Sailwave? Yes? Sailwave is TOTALLY free. http://www.sailwave.com/. It is community supported at the Sailwave User Group (SUG) on Yahoo Groups and currently has nearly 1200 members from absolutely all around the Globe. One of its many features is the ability to interface with Y&Y.com to upload reports, results and photos.

Simon

Burghfield SC

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SUGmeister Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Sailwave Moderators Joined: 08 Jun 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 265	Post Options Post Reply Quote SUGmeister Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Personal Handicap Posted: 08 Jun 07 at 9:51am
	Hi ChrisJ et al, dunno if this counts as flagrant spamming but everyone does use Sailwave? Yes? Sailwave is TOTALLY free. http://www.sailwave.com/. It is community supported at the Sailwave User Group (SUG) on Yahoo Groups and currently has nearly 1200 members from absolutely all around the Globe. One of its many features is the ability to interface with Y&Y.com to upload reports, results and photos. Simon Burghfield SC
	Simon SUGmeister I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.

ChrisJ Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 07 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 337	Post Options Post Reply Quote ChrisJ Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Jun 07 at 8:31am
	Andy, Take a look at the Burghfield calculation page (pointed to above). We have been using an automated results service using Sailwave for 3 or 4 years: With the right file parameters, we just enter the finishing results: and the personal handicaps for next time are all shown. If you want to discuss in more detail, there are e-mail addresses for BSC on the web-site. At the start of each series, everyone's personal handicap is pegged back by 50%: If you were good on +5, you start the next series on +2.5. If you were a beginner on -6, you start the next series on -3. This seems to work without over-penalising the good people at the start of the series - and we need the good people sailing, as it helps to encourage everyone else. 84 people entered on Wednesday evening: with the pursuit race meaning everyone SHOULD finish at the same time, and the personal handicap meaning everyone DOES finish at the same time!!

andymck Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 15 Dec 06 Location: Stamford Online Status: Offline Posts: 397	Post Options Post Reply Quote andymck Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jun 07 at 7:11pm
	Like at your club the idea is not to replace standard handicap racing, but to use it for one of the series, parallel to the standard handicaps. The initial handicaps will be calculated from the sailwave results from standard handicap racing, with small additional modifications for any boat that has placed in any handicap series, we would expect these guys to be contesting the standard series anyway, and hope to spread the prizes. Handicaps would then be modified in a similar way to your series, with varying deductions of handicap for being in first three, and a slightly slower gain if you place in the bottom half. Initial handicap would be made from an average from a minimum of three standard handicap races. Precise numbers not yet decided for penalisations etc, still at discussion stage.
	Andy Mck

ChrisJ Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 07 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 337	Post Options Post Reply Quote ChrisJ Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jun 07 at 4:57pm
	BUT we don't use personal handicaps for the normal Sunday fleet and handicap racing. This is where "the best man wins", but the personal handicap races do allow a lot of: "I can beat him on a Sunday, I should be able to beat him on a Wednesday" But when you are starting 3 or 4 minutes (and 20 boats!) behind him, it makes it very hard. "Very hard" means you have to try harder, and try different tactics, and make sure you make no mistakes, and get the inside line on all the buoys, but still be to windward on all the legs, without getting luffed out of existence etc. It gives different racing - and the variety seems to work well and attracts many different people.

ChrisJ Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 07 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 337	Post Options Post Reply Quote ChrisJ Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jun 07 at 4:53pm
	At Burghfield (just off J12 on the M4) we use a personal handicap pursuit race on a Wednesday evening. It is incredibly popular (are there any other clubs that have an AVERAGE mid-week turnout of 60 boats?). The details of how the handicaps are calculated are all at: http://www.burghfieldsailing.org/index.php?module=pagemaster &PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=14&MMN_position= 15:15 Basically, the pursuit race has starts every 30 seconds. Every boat has a base start time (based on PY number). If you finish in the top half of the race, you have seconds added onto your time, while those in the bottom half each race have seconds taken off. The actual number of seconds is calculated based on how many boats are racing and your actual position. The seconds are rounded up to give a starting number: with most boats somewhere between -3 and + 3 minutes. The actual number of seconds per boat is remembered for the next week, so that your total / personal start time is continually varied during the season: but over time more and more boats finish closer and closer together! There are two prizes for the series: 1 for the normal best 7 out of 18 races (which is incredibly hard to win: as the better you do the more you get penalised the next time). and 1 for who can get the highest personal handicap number. Does it work? Apart from the Oppies starting in nice clear wind - and the evening wind dropping for all the other boats! Or the RS400's who only get a 30 minute race, when others are getting up to 75 mins. Or the difficulties of overtaking 20 boats on a short run. Or the better you do the harder it is the next time.... Apart from that, its the 75 boats racing at the same time, followed by a meal and drink in the club, that shows it must work! Cheers, Chris RS400 1254 RS-Vareo 294

blaze720 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635	Post Options Post Reply Quote blaze720 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jun 07 at 3:31pm
	Nothing more to say - it encourages all to work harder. If you 'need' a decent pot get out a bit more and benefit from having to work much harder at club level. Blaze 720

MainlySwimming Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 28 Nov 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 65	Post Options Post Reply Quote MainlySwimming Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jun 07 at 12:32pm
	Totally agree...just wish the 'experts' at our club all had the same view.

Chris 249 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041	Post Options Post Reply Quote Chris 249 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jun 07 at 11:51am
	Well said Giraffe!

andymck Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 15 Dec 06 Location: Stamford Online Status: Offline Posts: 397	Post Options Post Reply Quote andymck Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 04 Jun 07 at 11:05pm
	Thanks Giraffe, thats exactly what we are trying to do. Andy
	Andy Mck

giraffe Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 10 May 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 148	Post Options Post Reply Quote giraffe Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 04 Jun 07 at 12:36pm
	i think the anti personal handicap group are missing the point. Personal ratings are required whether it be a fleet of different boats or One Design. There is no enjoyment going down to your sailing club and beating up people you are better than week after week. There is no reason to improve your boat or yourself. Set up a rating system so that you need to beat people by a larger amount each week and that motivates everyone. There is a pecking order in most fleets as there is a wide variety of skill levels and given that I have 20+ years experience of high level competition how am I going to get a decent race at my local club with 20 active sailors unless something is done to alter the basis of competition. Yes I could travel to open meetings, but my family do not want that. Yes I could find a club with a better standard of competition, but that would not be so close to home. Yes I could give up and play golf with someone good and with a handicap so that we can both enjoy some competition. gold/silver/bronze with 20 boats? there is hardly enough for a fleet without breaking it down anymore. No. Quite frankly my loft is full of hideous pieces of glassware and i dont want any more. I do not want or need to win when it comes to club sailing. I just want a fun competition which means that I can sail every weekend. I want the others to enjoy it as much as I do and want to feel that they want to come back each week for more. Personal handicapping works. The system needs to be good. Those who are improving their handicap need to be recognised, as do those who have the hardest handicaps. it is not about rewarding bad performance or not training. it is about increasing participation. anyone who wins a handicap race be it portsmouth based or personal based should appreciate that their handicap was an important factor.