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Dinghies in 2020
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AdrianM View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Apr 09 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by WildWood

 I think cat's will be the next to adopt the foiler thing in a big way with potentially adaptations of the A and C(?) F18 classes learning to fly. 

I hope not, pitchpoling is scary enough as it is, not sure how much fun it would be at those speeds - or where you might land!

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Posts: 102 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Flick-Flock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 09 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by WildWood

There will no doubt be further development of the foiler designs, but most folk will continue to sail something more conventional.  I think cat's will be the next to adopt the foiler thing in a big way with potentially adaptations of the A and C(?) F18 classes learning to fly.


One of the C Class boats has already tried it



They have a bit about it on SA http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2007/AC%20Andidote.htm

And some more pics here: http://www.foils.org/gallery/cclass.htm

Looks like it could be quick
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 09 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by Flick-Flock

Looks like it could be quick

It wasn't... But possibly underdeveloped.

The Swiss catamaran seems at first sight not to have seen a lot of the development work done by people like Hansford (Philfly) Ketterman (Longshot) and Chapman Certes/Calliope). *If* my understanding of the swiss boat from the pictures is correct then it might be considered somewhat obsolescent in design by the above folks...
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Posts: 339 		Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 09 at 3:01pm

Originally posted by G.R.F.



A customer I might add with a commercial insight into just how easily lost
to the market they can be, with windsurfing being an exact example of
just how to do that.

And as I see it, the top end of the performance boat market is following
exactly the same pattern making ever more inaccessible products in the
name of macho performance.

We can disregard most of what happened in windsurfing because that market has nearly always been for matching very individualistic needs and coming out with new, top end gear all the time. No serious one designs outside the Olymics have come to the fore because everyone wants to be individual. Fine for them.

But people prefer hopefully a good deal of OD racing. That there is currently a fragmentation is caused every bit as much by old classes as new boats or ventures into foiling. There is a bit too much choice in the UK, especially in the mid price to cheaper used market and the consolidation seen in the 1990s is over for the moment

For boats which can sail in any wind, at any venue then I think you ask too much of a compromise. Sheltered inshore and lake sailors spend a lot of time in light, sub 9 knts, wind.

Design moves along and we catch up. The elastic band for the market between old ODs and more exciting new designs will twang inevitably only one way- forward! Boats even get simpler to sail for a given performance ( I14 1990s compared to 49er say, or b14 to the 59er for a closer comparison, mirror to Feva...)

Sad to hear the scottish RS400s are way down on tne years ago when I was sailing in it. Frankly I didn't find the RS400 very excting below 18 knts wind and didn't have a fleet of 800s locally to think about training up for.

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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 09 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by damp_freddie


We can disregard most of what happened in windsurfing because that
market has nearly always been for matching very individualistic needs
and coming out with new, top end gear all the time. No serious one
designs outside the Olymics have come to the fore because everyone
wants to be individual. Fine for them.



Actually, looking at the enormous breath of dinghy sailing I'd wager that
dinghy sailors, as a whole, are more individualistic.

Certainly the dinghy sailors are much less consumerist. The typical
windsurfer will move from one type of board to another over the years,
and by the most amazing coincidence they'll tend to buy what the big
manufacturers are promoting. The dinghy sailors will, to a large extent,
sail what they want to sail, and if no big company will make it for them,
they'll arrange a small company to do it or build it themselves.

Maybe dinghy sailors, with their do-it-yourself ethos (even if it's a SMOD
class being run by SMOD owners rather than the builder) seem to be
more in tune with today's world of Web 2.0 etc, in some ways. Look at the
development of the Moth. Over the past 20 years, those backyard boffins
have increased their speed around a course at least as much as the "pros"
of the big-money windsurfer scene have in the same period.

BTW, there used to be massive fleets of OD boards. The original
Windsurfer worlds were restricted to members of national teams only, and
they still got fleets of 400+. They were extremely serious, too. Then
some ODs didn't change fast enough and others maybe changed too
often, and the sport declined with the ODs.

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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 09 at 2:18pm

Originally posted by Chris 249


BTW, there used to be massive fleets of OD boards. The original
Windsurfer worlds were restricted to members of national teams only, and
they still got fleets of 400+. They were extremely serious, too. Then
some ODs didn't change fast enough and others maybe changed too
often, and the sport declined with the ODs.

Yeah but in those days the windsurfer was pretty much the only windsurfer so all the racing funnelled into that ... and short boards, slalom racing & wave sailing etc hadn't even been thought off ...

I think Grumpf continued drawing of a parallel between the fate of the windsurfer and the future of dinghy sailing is way off the mark ... whilst the 2 are water & wind sports the similarities stop there ...
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 09 at 12:33pm
Actually, many of the various one designs in most of the world were at
their peak (for
example, 270 in the Canadian Windsurfer nats) well after shortboards,
slalom racing etc were strong and established. The (allegedly) fastest
growing class, the Kona One, is in many ways a dinghy sailed standing
up.

There can be a huge number of similarities between the most popular
racing boards and the dinghies; for example, there's an enormous
amount of interchange among many of the more influential figures in the
boards and the boat sailors. It would take too long to list here, but for
example the most successful pro windsurfer of all and the most
successful Olympic windsurfer of all both come from boat-sailing
backgrounds, as did (and maybe still do) many of the top figures in the
industry.

But yes, in some ways the parallel falls down - as you said, the dinghies
have a huge and vital influence from clubs and classes that allows them
to largely chart their own course, without domination from the
manufacturers. Maybe the lesson is that we must maintain the strength of
the mainstream clubs and the non-extreme classes that mainly support
them if we are to maintain the strength of dinghy sailing.







Edited by Chris 249
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 09 at 5:28am

Originally posted by Guest#260

The windsurfing "scene" never really created a club infrastructure

Not entirely true. I can think of at least two windsurfing clubs that existed and ran club racing in Hampshire in the mid to late 80s. I'm sure there were others.
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 09 at 5:32am

Originally posted by Chris 249

The (allegedly) fastest
growing class, the Kona One, is in many ways a dinghy sailed standing
up.

In what way?
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 09 at 12:32am
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Chris 249

The (allegedly) fastest
growing class, the Kona One, is in many ways a dinghy sailed standing
up.


In what way?



Well, unlike other board classes it's aimed at sailing in very light winds as
well as strong winds; it bans pumping with the specific intent of bringing
back "traditional yacht racing" tactics; and it's more aimed at regular
club-style racing whereas other board classes tend to race regattas.

Of course, it's all open to definition -some hardcore shortboarders feel
that the RSX is just a dinghy sailed standing up.

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