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59er Sails - very flat

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 59er Sails - very flat
    Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 10:02pm
We have a 59er in our club (Wilsonian).  The sails seem very flat.  The main is now much better since we have reduced the caps to 10 on a Loos gauge and the mast is now not so curved.  The jib however is extremely flat, the top batten straight and you have to come down the sail about a 1˝m to see any sign of curve.  We have tried loads of luff tension.  Any ideas?  Or do any 59er sailors recognise this.  I'm trying to get a photo  from the owner but I hoping to beat the owner to a solution.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 10:38pm

Thought they were supposed to be really flat on the basis that the boat will always be going up (apparent) wind.

We talking Tasar flat, Ice yacht flat or just MUCH too flat here?

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 10:50pm
They are much flatter than my Laser4000 which has very similar speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote BBSCFaithfull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 07 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by redback

They are much flatter than my Laser4000 which has very similar speed.


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They are flat because you dont have the extra leverage of a trapeze. So the sails need less powering up
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Post Options Post Options   Quote swiftsolo.org Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 07 at 11:13pm

Make sure you have the lowers pulled on so the bottom of the mast is dead straight when you apply rig tension.

We basically couldn't measure the uppers with a loos guage.(They were that slack) We felt that pulling them on stopped the boat from breathing. We left them on the same hole for all wind ranges as they automatically loosened when you increased rig tension on the primaries when it was breezy.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 07 at 7:59pm
The reason the 59er has much flatter sails than the 4000 is also due to weight (the 4000 sails need more power to pull all that weight through the water!!!)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 07 at 8:14pm
There's a principle being established that larger flat sails are easier to handle than smaller full ones for the same power. Hnece the 59er has relatively large sails for the righting moment etc available, but they flatter.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 07 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by redback

We have a 59er in our club (Wilsonian).  We have tried loads of luff tension.  .


Why??  Thats not going to add any depth to the sail, if anything I would have thought it would make it flatter.  Which hole on the jib clew plate is the sheet attached to?  Have you tried moving it up to the top so that there isn't so much pull across ways?  When i sailed that boat, the jib seemed absolutely fine (in fact it set beautifully) so unless something's been changed since then there isnt actualy anything wrong with it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 07 at 10:59am

The flat sails also produce less drag - which is all part of the philosophy of the boat- the hull has a bit more rocker/deadrise and relatively long chines on a relatively narrower immersed hull making it slippier than the 29er/49er.

I reckon swiftsolo risks a bit with his upper D2s being slack-alice - but I presume the windward one comes tight when sailing(?)

 

I think "design wind" for the boat must be about 9 knts (with lard at 150-180kg !)  and there after you are depowering the already flat sails! Low and fast is the aim- don't try to point.

If you can invest in a dinghy-speedo,  or have a GPS, you should be able to do 7/8ths of windspeed upwind in up to 12 knts breeze, and almost up to 1/3rd faster than the wind on the "run".

Swifty can tell you more about higher winds, but I just remember bombing down over the wave train wearing a grin and being able to chill out!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 07 at 7:35pm
Thanks guys I'll pass it on.  Yes I thought big flat sails instead of small full ones but actually the sails aren't that big.
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