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49er sails

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 49er sails
    Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 7:06pm

the sailmakers do not want to put a bigger roach on the main, but if the carbon mast means that lighter teams are quicker then they will counteract that by increasing the main. If a bigger main isnt needed then they may well use change the luff curve to match the carbon rig. If they change the mast then it will cost £4000 so you have one spare or £6000 if they change the main aswell so you have a racing and training main.

Also the new carbon mast will be in 3 sections making it cheaper to replace if not repairable and you can send one by a courier. May be bother most people but if it means that you can get a complete new mast the following day without having to drive up to newcastle and back then its definatly a positive.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote combat wombat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 4:01pm
Boatshed is again correct - you don't need a massive speed difference when you upgrade the rig.  The B14's did it because the ally rigs were becoming difficult to get, the carbon ones are stronger and can be repaired with no loss in strength.  The sail plan is unchanged apart from the luff curve.  The ally rigged boats now allow a cheaper entry into the class, meaning a more diverse and bigger fleet.

Changing the 49er sail plan would be a much bigger shake up, almost certainly requiring a new rig.  It would divide the fleet to the "haves" and the "have nots" since a big set of sails and a carbon mast for a 49er will be getting onto £3500 if they do it right. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 3:40pm

The B14 example is relevant to the 49er fleet.   The 49ers may have little choice about moving to carbon masts.  The question they face is do they radically change the sail plan as well ?  If they kept the sail plan pretty similar, as did the B14s, the older, non carbon rig boats would still be reasonably competitive and well priced for new, less funded teams..

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Post Options Post Options   Quote nathan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 2:57pm

Whilst the speed difference in a B14 with and without the carbon rig, with the greatest of respect the 49er class is far more competitive. Anyone sailing a 49er at Olympic level will upgrade, and whilst the very top teams could easily absorb the cost- the younger teams and those starting out will find another £2k an expensive bill to swallow.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote combat wombat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 2:35pm
Boatshed is right, the B14 rig is carbon from CST.  Very strong (ie no breakages since the mast collar upgrade, unlike the ally rig of which one would go at each open). 

The well sailed ally rig boats do stay on the pace, this is achieved because the rig is not too much lighter and the bend characteristics are similar.  General thoughts are that the carbon rigged boats are quicker downwind, and in chop. 

The fleet was not obsoleted by the carbon stick, and at the last event (Rutland) the carbon boats were outnumbering the ally boats.  Numbers are up in the fleet.  The 49ers could do it as generally they are sailed by well funded teams (ie a competitive one isn't cheap), provided the carbon stick was similar in weight and bend characteristics to the ally stick. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 1:27pm

For comparison, the B14 class has made the change to carbon masts (CST ,I think).  There was an extensive trial period.  The main sails have changed a bit, not any larger but more to match a slightly different bend characteristics.

The aluminium/glass topped masts were becoming difficult and expensive to source.  This is maybe a factor in the 49er rig re-think.

The B14 fleet is on a roll at the moment and well sailed metal mast boats are still on the pace, so, obsoleting the fleet is not really true.  Also, the carbon mast seems to have opened the class up to a wider range of crew weights.

Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 10:40am

I think the idea is to just catch up on the development abit not to keep up with development classes.

it is the ultimate twin wiring skiff because there is no other twin wiring skiff which can keep up over all the conditions. 14s are quicker downwind when it gets over 18knots and in chop because we have to stop pushing the boat so hard otherwise we will pitchpole but 14s just push the bow up with the t foil and off they go (a 49er could not realy have a t-foil because the whole boat would have to be changed). But not many twin wiring skiffs if any can keep up with a 49er upwind.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote BBSCFaithfull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 07 at 11:17pm
But its not the fastest all the time. And isnt it supposed to be the ultimate twin string skif?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote owain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 07 at 11:11pm
surely though, its pointless trying to stay ahead of 14s, cherubs, 12s etc. These classes are "development" classes, and therefore will always looking to go faster, so the 49er will have to keep updating aswell to stay in the game, effectively making them a development class aswell. After all, why does the 49er have to stay ahead? i think any 49er sailer would agree, that its fast enough already. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 07 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by Iain C

Is there not a whole section in "High Performance Sailing" where Frank tries to say that an ally spar topped with a glass tip is a whole load better than an all carbon spar

A part glass tip might well be better with a relative small main head like the Bethwaite boats have.
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