Alto Dinghy

While we are waiting for Mike Arnold/Old Arn to reply to this thread, I wanted to post my own two penny worth here.  I own an old 505, and an old Javelin..I  am also a friend of Mike Arnold's and very much admire the Alto.

I would like to answer a few questions which keep cropping up in this thread and pose one or two more.

1. Should people tweak, modify, or radically alter sucessful designs when the steam is going out of  the original? 

Of course they should. In the natural world it's called evolution. In farming and bloodstock  it's called breeding and in  International 14's and other restricted classes it's called 'the latest thing'.

The 505 is a successful thoroughbred which far outsold its contemporary competitors including the Flying Dutchman, the Osprey, the Hornet and the Javelin. However sales of new boats have slowed considerably in recent years and have been outstripped by a plethora of  asymmetric  classes which are arguably all derived or significantly influenced by the  Penultimate International 14's from the early 1990's. The Laser 4000, the RS400, and the ISO, are all arguably reduced-horsepower stretched-waterline 14s, with a touch of Merlin Rocket here and there. (OK OK I know the Aussies started it all, and that UK Cherubs had asymmetrics in the '70's.)   Yet Penultimate 14's are as suitable for short steep seas as good polo ponies are for the Grand National.i.e. NOT A LOT!  In contrast, with its gentle bows and longish waterline, the 505 is and always was an excellent sea boat. While the 505's almost unique  bowler hat hull shape, makes planing to windward a long remembered dream, designers like Morrison (RS400, Laser 4000) l cut their teeth on 14's and Merlin's whose 14 foot length restriction determined the almost vertical bows. How else could they maximise waterline length and therefore velocity? The 505 on the other hand was developed by John Westell from his Coronet design which was 18 foot long. . The only similar hull that preceed the Coronet that I am aware of , was an unsuccessful International 14 called Thunderbolt No 635. However the bow of Thunderbolt was the usual vertical wall of a 14 not the elegant graceful entry of the 505.  In other words, if you are going to develop from an existing  hull design, (and I contend  all the recent classes  ARE derivative). then  the 505 is a very sensible  place to start. [By the way what you can't do in the Alto in its current layout is run from wire to wire between tacks. For that you need a 49er, a Swift Solo, or to influence Mike Arnold.

Is the Alto good for boat design  in general and the 505 class in particular?
Of course it is. With a  505 hull and a modern rig, what better opportunity is there  to compare the old with the new? It's got to be good for sailing. Mike sailed against a number of good 505s at Alton Water last winter. Imagine a mixed fleet of 10 Altos and 10 Five Oh's?  And all in a boat the can go over a wave and not stop dead in a seaway. How exiting is that from a design point of view AND as a spectacle.

2. Is the Alto's swinging pole (' 120 degree-articulated spinnaker system) a leap forward or just a copy?

In my understanding the Alto's spinnaker system is a significant leap forward making all Mike Arnold's work in the last few years admirable for this alone. To say it's derived from the RS 400 is like saying the helicopter was copied from the boomerang.  However let me turn the question back on the critics. Can your  wing-wang pole, or a tweaked pole  be turned  60 degrees either side of the forestay, thus allowing you to run straight downwind if you want to? If not then the Alto is way  ahead of you. We all know what gybe-tacking downwind against a strong tide is like. In an Alto you have the full flexiblity that a racing team needs to deal effectively with the opposition. I'm going to have a Fully Swinging Pole  myself soon. Admitedly my sailing is quiter than most, but imagine having a boat so flexible and well behaved that you can fly a kite single handed from the wire one day, race two handed the next, and picnic with small sails and children on the third.Is that perfect or not?

 

I don't get it...why on why do 'us brits' insist on 'fiddling' with designs and thus reducing the fleetsizes for all classes. Just because boat  x isn't quite perfect then someone invents boat y which is basically the same but slightly different.. thus the number of people sailing the classes goes down and so does the level of competition. Look at virtually any other strong sailing nation and they have half the number of 'active classes' we have, and tend to have stronger fleets, until you get geographic constrainst such as US/Aus.

If you want a single-trap, asym boat with a wing-wang pole, then buy a 4000. 2-2.5K and you have a boat that will win you the nats. theres good competitive racing at some of the best venues in Europe & the UK - e.g. garda, bandol, sardinia, abersoch, rock, hayling, felixstowe, grafham. Plus it's weight equalised so that 60 kg helms and 100 kilo helms race level...plus you have a really friendly welcoming class that are keen to see newcomers come into the fleet and give it a whirl..

I watched the Alto's progress with interest over the winter. I'm not in the market for a double-hander but the Alto looks really good on the water and has some very neat design touches. The mixed fleet at Alton Water includes quite a mix of boats including several 505s, and with Mike at the helm of the Alto, he looked like he was having a pretty good time competing in some 'interesting' conditions.

Nigel

nope despite me demonstrating and explaining (in Lasers!!), they were adamant they were correct!

Another interesting point was that in the USA you can learn to sail and become an instructor all within a few days course. It's roughly equivalent to doing an RYA Level 1 course then learning how to teach it. Needless to say there are a lot of very confused kids, and 'instructors' for that matter!

Actually interesting note on top of that. My RYA instructors qualification wasn't valid at the summer camp i taught at so I had to do the Red Cross sailing qualification. My instructors wouldn't let me pass until I had conceded to them that it is fast to heel a dinghy to leeward upwind.  Now I know this is the case to a small degree in a Topper, but they argued that this was fast for ALL dinghies! Unbelievable.