New women's Olympic boat

Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by Chew my RS Ladies twin wire skiffing does not exist in any meaningful numbers. And mens' twin string skiffing was entirely (or very nearly so) confined to Australia and New Zealand before the 49er came out.

And even in Australia, skiffs comprised a small percentage of the total dinghy sailing populace with the exception of three cities in New South Wales where gambling and liquour laws meant that even the weekend warriors did (and do) get subsidised sailing. The most popular of Skiffs only has 2/3 of the crew on traps.

This is not meant to be knocking skiffs, but it's surely of some significance that even in the places where the type evolved* there are very very few (no?) women sailing twin string, and only a minority of men. Of course these days skiff types are more attractive, but the fact that women on Skiffs are so rare even here may have some significance.

We used to have a strong bunch of females on fast cats and boards....seems to have dropped away these days, which is a pity.

* with an enormous and under-publicised amount of input from conventional dinghies from northern and southern hemispheres.

Originally posted by 49erGBR735HSC Might have been an idea to give a place to a fast cat instead because although it may be less fashionable at the moment and wouldn't have so much discusion about how great "boat A, B and C " are, there are at least some females sailing them, compared to very minimal numbers in skiffs. Also there isn't a Cat for females at the Olympics whereas technically, since the 49er is open, if females really wanted to sail a skiff and give the commitment deemed for Olympic sailing at least they do have an avenue of pursuit at the present moment.

 

Erm...  Tornado is open.  And at least one female is helming at the top level.

Sorry Simon, someone told me that the Tornado was Male double-hander, I stand corrected.

My own categorisation is based on the fact that apart from the historical and cultural aspects, the skiffs have always had a much bigger rig per LOA than conventional dinghies, and much more crew-derived righting moment per LOA than conventional dinghies. Plotted on a chart, at all times in their history (apart from about '68-70 in 12s and 14s when their RM/LOA was little better than a Cherubs or Gwens) they have been distinctive in these factors. The same factors have always played a big role in creating the shape of the Skiffs, as well.

These factors ignore factors like speed and hull weight, but then again as you point out for years Skiffs were heavier and slower than some dinghies. It also ignores the freedom of development but we all know that cannot be an inherent part of the Skiff movement as they have moved to OD themselves in the case of 16s and 18s.

While ratios are only part of the story, they do seem to be about the most consistent physical part of the Skiff classes and with the possible exception of the Bermuda Fitted Dinghy, the Skiffs were the only boats with those sort of numbers. So for my 2 cent's worth, the Cherub may have become a skiff if it stepped into the same realm of ratios as the Skiffs. That means the Aussie Cherub is probably still a dinghy, and personally I can't find anything wrong with that and nor could most died in the wool Skiffies.

Of course, this is just a personal demarcation but it does seem to me to be a reasonable way to allow the language to develop (just like Skiff sailors use terms that have changed) without making the term meaningless. I've even seen Canoes classed as skiffs!

I'm just plotting typical righting moment for LOA on one axis, and sail area (averaging upwind/downwind although it doesn't seem to matter) for LOA on the other.

The traditional Skiff classes through the ages are all in one corner, all well clear of all the contemporary dinghies on both measures.

That computer is waiting for repairs, but from memory all the boats that I'd call "small S skiffs" - 49ers, MPSs, 700s - fit into the same sort of region as the Skiffs, and there's no examples of boats that no-one would call skiffs (Canoes, FDs etc) falling into the skiff corner.

I'm interested partly because I wonder when a new high performance DINGHY will arise - something without a skiff's high RM and big sail for length, but still fast. Once upon a time, the efficient route was quicker than the skiff route - I wonder if it's still possible (foilers apart) but it would be interesting to see. It could be fast, fun and less demanding to sail.