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Bruce Starbuck View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Mar 07 at 9:45am

This has got me wondering:  What is the World's hottest (most competitive) non-olympic one-design class?

The 505 has got to be in there somewhere, along with maybe the Snipe, 420, Optimist, 18ft skiff...

The keelboat list is a little easier I reckon, and would have to include the J24, Soling, Melges, Farr 40...
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 07 at 11:27am
It depends on your definition of competitive...

Most difficult to buy a boat, jump in it and win is probably the International Moth for instance, simply because of the level of training required to get to Worlds winning level. On the other hand there aren't that many other people at that level who you have to beat.

There are probably several keelboat classes (Etchells springs to mind) where there are loads of people all pretty much at Worlds winning level of skill and boats that can't go much faster than one another, so that while its far easier to get up to worlds winning speed, there are far more people at that level of speed that you have to get the right mixture of skill and maybe a bit of luck in order to win...
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Posts: 1251 		Post Options Post Options   Quote BBSCFaithfull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 07 at 12:54am
I14? or 49er?


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Originally posted by turnturtle

MPS, wins hands down... but for how long is going to remain a non-olympic boat?


It's obviously a great boat with many excellent sailors, but can a class that's basically restricted to about 10% of the planet really be the world's most competitive class, hands down?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 07 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by turnturtle

MPS, wins hands down... but for how long is going to remain a non-olympic boat?


It's obviously a great boat with many excellent sailors, but can a class that's basically restricted to about 10% of the planet really be the world's most competitive class, hands down?


Though in the main you are right that it is still a very british dominated boat, im not convinced that is going to last long.  Dealers appointed across the continents and containers of boats having already been shipped and unpacked at australia and america and currently being sailed. 
I suppose lets wait and see what the nationality turn out at the worlds compared to last years worlds gives us. 

I personally think either the I14s or the 505's have the most non-olympic competative fleets.  Oh and not forgetting the fireball of course!!. 

Doug.h
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Posts: 8 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Max F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 07 at 11:23pm

OK dinghy must be a candidate.  Genuinely international.  A sailing race not an arms race.  Essentially amateur - maybe a few more pros jump into the 505 which may (or may not) give it an edge.  Disagree with the 14.  Great boat, but recent experience shows a lot of people getting very successful based on limited time in the boat.
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Posts: 124 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bruce Starbuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 07 at 12:27pm

I guess a very competitive class would have the following attributes:

Assuming you've just gone out and bought the best boat and sails available,

  1. It would be then very difficult and time-consuming to get your boatspeed up to the same level as the top guys.
  2. Once you've learnt how to travel at the same speed as the top guys, they would then have to be very hard to beat tactically.

Indicators of the world's most competitive class would be things like:

  • International spread of the class
  • What it's sailors go on to achieve elsewhere
  • No evidence of new sailors jumping in and doing well very soon
  • Big names sailing the class for fun.

I actually think that the 420 could quite legitimately call themselves the World's most competitive non-olympic class, because of the massive international spread and the history of it's champions going on to win olympic medals and sail professionally. The top 10 of any 420 Worlds are all pretty special dinghy sailors.

Of the non-youth classes, I'd say the 505.

Getting the boatspeed up to scratch would be the first challenge in any new class, and I don't think it would be any harder to do in the Int. Moths than in the Etchells, it's just that in the Moths, the top guys would be legs ahead of the mid-fleet, rather than metres ahead in a slower class. Probably a similar task in terms of difficulty to gain those inches of boatspeed in an Etchells as it would be to gain the bigger distances in the Moth.

 
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 07 at 1:55pm
I kinda agree about the 420, but you could also say the OK and Optimist are pretty tough to win (as is the Mirror) - based on number of countries sending really good crews to World championship events - the closest of gaps (confining to dinghies cos I agree on the points made about the Etchells <could also apply to Melges24>) is probably the singlehanders - for example Toppers - no chance of an "arms race" in that fleet cos they're basically SMODS and the speed difference is tiny amonst the top sailors

420, OK, Optimist, Mirror, 505, Fireball, i14, Moth, Tempest, FD - all highly competitive and blooming tough to win at Worlds level but there is an open choice of spars, foils, sails, hulls etc... whereas there's pretty much nought difference between true One-Design fleets like Hobie 16, Topper .....
 
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Posts: 615 		Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 07 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by Norbert

I'm pretty sure the Supernova was taken from a chopped down 505 mould. Look at the bow to see the family resemblance


You sure? weird. The supernova is a bit of a mongrel (plenty of boats are) - interesting to sail though.

505 top boat - you can still eat pies and sail one. Bang for competitive buck in the same arena  would have to be a Hartley Osprey.
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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Posts: 16 		Post Options Post Options   Quote James W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 07 at 9:29pm

I would have thought the worlds most competitive non-olympic one-design class is probably a keelboat class as there is silly money being thrown at it and more pros sailing them.

Have a look at the Melges 24 worlds entry clicky and note the amount of none corinthian teams and big names, the fleet is full of Olympians and World Champions of past and present. There are 54 teams currently entered and 33 of them are pros  now that is some hot competition.
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