py failing

The best way to get a really 'good' PY ( ie unrealistically low so it's easy to win on PY ) would be to sail a class that the good guys don't club sail and therefore don't get many PY returns.

Eg Olympic classes develop the boats to high level, and are extremely well sailed, but not perhaps at club level. The PY returns are therefore for the older slower boats - which is ok for the old boats. But sail a new fast version quite well, and the results using the 'average club racing returned PY' will be very good indeed.

I think the Finn PY has gone slower in recent years, in spite of the carbon wing masts, mylar sails etc.

Maybe the fast merlins don't do much club sailing either.

How about having a personal boat handicap for boats built after 2000,eg new merlin 3***=average handicap then add on the changes,bigger sail area,-pointGo carbon mast - pointsYou could set up a boat database for the personal boat handicap at the rya.You might run the two systems at the same time. Very hard to police,but is a possible answer and the old merlins can still get a good result on handicap
using phone so forgive the poor english

Edited by Wrighty

Wrighty wrote

'How about having a personal boat handicap for boats built after 2000,eg new merlin 3***=average handicap then add on the changes.....' etc.

The Merlins do publish their own age related handicaps based on sail number (see http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/technical/handicaps.htm) corresponding (roughly?) to the major evolutions of the class. The current RYA published handicap is the one they recommend for the current generation of boat though, as I'm sure those of you convinced the boat has a 'bandit' handicap would soon be pointing out if I don't.

I suspect the personal boat handicap idea would indeed be very difficult to police. Possibly (probably?) there would be endless argument about which modifications to boats would count towards handicap changes, Winder MKIII - MkIV Canterbury Tails in the Merlin, the new sails on the Tasar* etc etc.

*As a Tasar (& sometimes Merlin) crew I should know better than to bring that one up again, but (getting our retaliation in first) the current champions used the old sails to win the nationals. A bit faster in some conditions not in others seems to be the consensus. Sits back and waits for posts from AllanOrton (local opposition in a Contender), Tim Knight, Rod Porteus, 'Tickel'...................     &nb sp; 

 

It has always seemed to me that wind conditions suit various classes at diferent times. In our venerable Tasar we go nowhere on our inland pond unless we are both sitting out. In light winds we are nowhere near our PY but when it blows up the boat performs well, even if we dont. When my son was sailing his Lightning 368 in Derbyshire Youth Sailing events light wind conditions it suited him very well. So well in fact that he would beat radials on the water. As the wind blew up the longer Lasers began to sail to their PY and beat him. When it realy blew there was little he could do to keep up. I would have said that in that case the PY system was working very well. This race series was very interesting to watch over 2 or 3 years because some of the youngsters were very able, some moving into RYA squads and my boy winning 2 Lightning nationals. Perhaps it is too easy to blame the PY system for our personal failings. If we take a longer view things may look fairer. Having said that, those bloody carbon draped Phantoms are very irritating !! How's that "Father Jack"

[QUOTE=JimC]There you are boys, average class places from the last 5 years of the Bloody Mary. Of course it won't explode the myths, but you can hope...

http://www.devboats.co.uk/handicapbandits.htm[/QUOTE]

Well done, Jim. That will 'prove' then, in some people's eyes, that the Laser 3000 (with a respectable eight-boat representation) is harshly handicapped.

But wait, the Wayfarer is even lower! That proves for me that the 'they should take the results of the Bloody Mary' argument is total ******s

As I said before, you need huge data input to come to any sensible conclusion on PY, which means the RYA are the only ones who can sensibly do it, and we should press our Sailing Secretaries hard to ensure they make returns for our clubs.

Has anybody yet suggested the weekly automated returns idea, mentioned by others above, to the RYA?