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Isis View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Mar 07 at 12:34pm
The first guys to become really good at foiling were all in the 60kg range with a few into low 70s i think but its all down to setup and technique... Sam Pascoe the current national champ is 80-something and is in the air when a lot of the lighter guys were still stuck in the wet stuff
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Isis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2753 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 07 at 12:47pm
Unfortunately though TT thats taken from the same marketing machine that gave us such gems as:

The Bladerider X8 is an ultra light-weight boat with no trapeze or spinnaker making it easier to rig and sail than any other dinghy.


Eaisier to sail than any other dinghy? c'mon guys...
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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 07 at 1:59pm
I think I read that the Axeman designs were suitable for up to 13.5 stone (which I was at the time so it must be some time ago) and that was fairly unusual so I really can't believe that the Bladeride can get going with 14stone+ on board before I'm even on the wire!
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COXY@FFYS View Drop Down
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Posts: 4 		Post Options Post Options   Quote COXY@FFYS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 07 at 2:19pm
The weight issue isnt really too much on an issue for me as im not going to race it unless i dicover in the next rohan veal, but Im more into the boat for the simple enjoyment. and im never going to weigh more than 90kg, so it doesent seem a problem.
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Paul B View Drop Down
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Posts: 53 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paul B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 07 at 2:51pm

Ricks analysis of the weight of the MPS is great.  Careful not to confuse the 52kgs of the 600 with the bare hull weight of the MPS.  Like for like the MPS is a little heavier (but near as damnit the same) as the 600.  Plus it won't have the spinnaker, pole, running gear that the MPS has, so let's say it will weigh 75kgs all up (fair Rick?).

Even so, comparing the Moth and the 600 needs to be done on a "weight on the water" basis.  Using "back of a fag packet" type calculations and assumptions:-

Moth - 35kgs all up, + 70kg sailor = 105kg

600 - 75kg all up, +  90kg sailor = 165kg

Now remember that the 600 will have more leverage by virtue of the trapeze, and remembering we're still on the back of a fag packet:-

Righting Moment of Moth - 70kg sailor x (say) CoG 1.5m from centreline = 105kgm

Righting Moment of 600 - 90kg sailor x (say) CoG 2.0m from centreline = 180kgm

Now if we assume that Righting Moment is roughly equal to power available, power to weight ratios look like

Moth = 1.0

600 = 1.1

That starts to look interesting to me! 

Of course proof of the pudding will be in the eating and all that.... (not that I'm eating any puddings on this diet mind!)

Paul

 
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 07 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by Paul B

Ricks analysis of the weight of the MPS is great.  Careful not to confuse the 52kgs of the 600 with the bare hull weight of the MPS.  Like for like the MPS is a little heavier (but near as damnit the same) as the 600.  Plus it won't have the spinnaker, pole, running gear that the MPS has, so let's say it will weigh 75kgs all up (fair Rick?).

Even so, comparing the Moth and the 600 needs to be done on a "weight on the water" basis.  Using "back of a fag packet" type calculations and assumptions:-

Moth - 35kgs all up, + 70kg sailor = 105kg

600 - 75kg all up, +  90kg sailor = 165kg

Now remember that the 600 will have more leverage by virtue of the trapeze, and remembering we're still on the back of a fag packet:-

Righting Moment of Moth - 70kg sailor x (say) CoG 1.5m from centreline = 105kgm

Righting Moment of 600 - 90kg sailor x (say) CoG 2.0m from centreline = 180kgm

Now if we assume that Righting Moment is roughly equal to power available, power to weight ratios look like

Moth = 1.0

600 = 1.1

That starts to look interesting to me! 

Of course proof of the pudding will be in the eating and all that.... (not that I'm eating any puddings on this diet mind!)

Paul

 

Looks a sensible analysis, they will both be very fast but I doubt it will make any difference to either class which is actually the fastest ...

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Paul B View Drop Down
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Posts: 53 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paul B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 07 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

Looks a sensible analysis, they will both be very fast but I doubt it will make any difference to either class which is actually the fastest ...

 

Totally agree with that.  But it will be fun trying to find out!
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Contender 541 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1402 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 07 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by Paul B

Ricks analysis of the weight of the MPS is great.  Careful not to confuse the 52kgs of the 600 with the bare hull weight of the MPS.  Like for like the MPS is a little heavier (but near as damnit the same) as the 600.  Plus it won't have the spinnaker, pole, running gear that the MPS has, so let's say it will weigh 75kgs all up (fair Rick?).

Even so, comparing the Moth and the 600 needs to be done on a "weight on the water" basis.  Using "back of a fag packet" type calculations and assumptions:-

Moth - 35kgs all up, + 70kg sailor = 105kg

600 - 75kg all up, +  90kg sailor = 165kg

Now remember that the 600 will have more leverage by virtue of the trapeze, and remembering we're still on the back of a fag packet:-

Righting Moment of Moth - 70kg sailor x (say) CoG 1.5m from centreline = 105kgm

Righting Moment of 600 - 90kg sailor x (say) CoG 2.0m from centreline = 180kgm

Now if we assume that Righting Moment is roughly equal to power available, power to weight ratios look like

Moth = 1.0

600 = 1.1

That starts to look interesting to me! 

Of course proof of the pudding will be in the eating and all that.... (not that I'm eating any puddings on this diet mind!)

Paul

 

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Isis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2753 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 07 at 5:47pm
Unfortunately increased righting moment only gives you more power... the moths dont have a problem with power most of the time... the main aim is to decrease drag which the 600 will have a stack more of...

Anyhoo... diverging from the topic at hand.... yes, buy my moth! or buy my 600... your call
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Helz View Drop Down
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Posts: 96 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Helz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 07 at 6:40pm
I think u should go for the RS they are great boats and u don't have 2 wait 2 be "Lord of the Wings"   *Soz bad joke*
luv Helz
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