'Weight on the Wire'

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Edited by JimC

Originally posted by Guest#260 ...I am sure it would be on a par with a new boat of today ...

My source implied not. Certainly things like better resins and fibres are going to make a difference to stiffness and thus speed, as are things like better fabricated hull joins and the like... not to mention more consistent mast rake. But who knows...

Its an interesting thought that although I'm not a great believer in the significance of boat speed, I suspect the one time its really going to make a difference is if you've got 50 boats lined up on a start line on starboard tack, all with exactly the same optimum pointing angle, trim etc. It seems to me that in that circumstance even tiny differences in performance will be magnified as the first people to get a nose in front get progressively clearer wind, and the folks who get a tad behind get progressively worse...

I wouldn't be suprised if boat speed makes more difference in those circumstances than in a class where there are wide variations with some boats clearing air by going low and fast, some high and so on... I'm certainly quite sure boat speed is a lot less significant in a handicap or pursuit race where there are far greater opportunities for clear air (unless of course you are one of a dozen Lasers!).

I think you guys are focusing on the wrong end of the stick; whilst a Laser may have had some changes they are minor compared to the developments with traditional one design classes yet the PYs are still pegged the same.

Perhaps this tells us why its hard to win on PY in a Laser or that all that development has yeilded little improvement.

Originally posted by Guest#260 The development classes have shown a resonable improvements but I suspect a big chunk of that improvement has been through significant rule changes rather than development within the rules.

The Moth class has had no significant rule changes for 30 + years - any changes have been restricting. The real sail area has actually been reduced by ~4% due to more restrictive and accurate measuring methods.
( and the foiler deveopment is within the rules too - with PYs in the 650 region on a good day, - making the moth class the biggest reduction ever in PY without a rule change )  ie from slower than Solo to faster than a 49er.

The Cherub class however has had major rule changes to allow more sail area, narrower hulls etc.

N12s have had minor rule changes re self draining.
Merlins ? dunno, not much change, but not much PY change either.


Edited by I luv Wight

Originally posted by Guest#260 Originally posted by I luv Wight Originally posted by Guest#260 The development classes have shown a resonable improvements but I suspect a big chunk of that improvement has been through significant rule changes rather than development within the rules. The Moth class has had no significant rule changes for 30 + years - any changes have been restricting. The real sail area has actually been reduced by ~4% due to more restrictive and accurate measuring methods. ( and the foiler deveopment is within the rules too - with PYs in the 650 region on a good day, - making the moth class the biggest reduction ever in PY without a rule change )  ie from slower than Solo to faster than a 49er. The Cherub class however has had major rule changes to allow more sail area, narrower hulls etc. N12s have had minor rule changes re self draining. Merlins ? dunno, not much change, but not much PY change either. I would class the following as signfiicant rule changes: - Lowering hull weight - Adding self draining floors - Allowing carbon rigs - Making spinnakers bigger - Making spinnaker poles longer - Allowing film sails - Allowing carbon booms/poles - Increasing upwind sail area - Adding trapezes

As far as moths go :

No min hull weight  - therefore no change
self-draining - no change
carbon rigs - no change
spinnakers - err...  no spinnakers on a moth
spin poles - irrelevant
film sails - no change
carbon booms/poles - no change
increasing upwind sail area - actually a 4% decrease
Adding trapezes  - this is the same int moth that we all know yes? - no change ( not allowed)
and the biggest development so far -
 flying hydrofoils allowed -  no change.

so there are no significant rule changes for this class.

( Development class rules allow anything not specifically banned, closed rules only allow things that are specifically allowed. The moth rules used to be on one A4 sheet, now 2 , compared to the Optimist which has a rule BOOK of 40 ish pages.)

No trapeze on N12s or merlins AFAIK.
But maybe some of the above applies to N12 and merlins -
Cherubs have indeed had big rule changes ( 2 wires, bigger sails and more length)