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'Weight on the Wire'

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Chas int505 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Mar 09 at 2:55pm

Agree with you Roy.  They key is to know what you can make work for your crew (weight, preferences etc).  There are loads of variables, and of course the aim is to have a setup that allows you to change gears smoothly when you need to.  That is - of course - the difference between top crews and the rest.!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 09 at 2:57pm

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Roy Race

It never ceases to amaze me how boats which in the grand scheme of things appear to be very similar - in this case, 505's, 470's and Fireballs - arrive at such very different solutions for rig set-up.

My theory is that because the performance of the sailors is probably around 90% of what makes a top team and boat speed is probably around 10% no class ever really knows what's fast and what isn't. Thus fashions in setup are defined by what the current hot guys in the class use rather than absolute speed. Haven't we all seen the supposedly lightning fast boat that gets sold on and never appears at the top of the fleet again?

I suspect this is very true; if all this development was making boats go faster wouldn't the 470 & Fireball (and other classes) have seen a gradual reduction in PY over the last 30 years whilst the SMODs stayed fixed ...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neal_g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 09 at 3:20pm

fair point rick but the fireball handicap has dropped in the past ten years was 991 probs about 7 years ago and now its down to 982 which is a fair drop for an established class

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 09 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by Neal_g

fair point rick but the fireball handicap has dropped in the past ten years was 991 probs about 7 years ago and now its down to 982 which is a fair drop for an established class

It would be interesting to see a historical graph plotting PY against years for some of the established classes; I wonder if anyone has the data for such an exercise?

I suspect it would be depressing to see how little PYs have dropped given the development effort especially as new materials and sailcloths have become available. Especially for some of the classes that have had significant rule changes like n12, Merlin & Phantom.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 09 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by JimC


Its a question of where you need control. With a
traditional deck stepped mast the mast is effectively
free to pivot at hounds and at the deck, so all else
being equal the point of maximum bend will be half way
between them. Thus that's where the spreaders should go.

If, however, the mast is keel stepped with a fixed mast
gate, or has a prod and lowers, then because the bottom
of the mast is held rigid there's a sort of cantilever
effect, and point of max bend is further up, hence the
spreaders are higher. 66% used to be
conventional.


That's a great theory except that Merlin Rockets have
deck stepped masts and the spreaders are really high up.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Adam MR 1137 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 09 at 4:13pm
But merlins do use lowers and pullers to fix the bottom of their masts where they want them, therefore giving the sort of cantilever effect that jim C mentioned.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 09 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by Neal_g

fair point rick but the fireball handicap has dropped in the past ten years was 991 probs about 7 years ago and now its down to 982 which is a fair drop for an established class

It would be interesting to see a historical graph plotting PY against years for some of the established classes; I wonder if anyone has the data for such an exercise?

I suspect it would be depressing to see how little PYs have dropped given the development effort especially as new materials and sailcloths have become available. Especially for some of the classes that have had significant rule changes like n12, Merlin & Phantom.

New sail cloths and materials have changed the speeds of most classes. The Yardstick system gives reletive speeds between boats, therefore the handicaps don't reflect all the speed changes that have taken place. The most obvious change was from cotton sails to man made fibres, but as most classes changed within a fairly short period of time (less than 10 years, certainly) they all got quicker.

What you would see, though, is that if you took a 1965 Enterprise straight out of the box exactly as she was new in 1965 and raced her against a 2009 one, the 2009 one would be far faster, dispite the Ent having one of the most stable handicaps.

You would probebly even find the same thing with an early 70's Laser, as the sail does seem to have been improved, and the controls are far better.

Of course, this also partly explains why the handicaps of development classes have changed less than you'd think, as they are getting faster against a moving scale.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 09 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by Neal_g

fair point rick but the fireball handicap has dropped in the past ten years was 991 probs about 7 years ago and now its down to 982 which is a fair drop for an established class

It would be interesting to see a historical graph plotting PY against years for some of the established classes; I wonder if anyone has the data for such an exercise?

I suspect it would be depressing to see how little PYs have dropped given the development effort especially as new materials and sailcloths have become available. Especially for some of the classes that have had significant rule changes like n12, Merlin & Phantom.

New sail cloths and materials have changed the speeds of most classes. The Yardstick system gives reletive speeds between boats, therefore the handicaps don't reflect all the speed changes that have taken place. The most obvious change was from cotton sails to man made fibres, but as most classes changed within a fairly short period of time (less than 10 years, certainly) they all got quicker.

What you would see, though, is that if you took a 1965 Enterprise straight out of the box exactly as she was new in 1965 and raced her against a 2009 one, the 2009 one would be far faster, dispite the Ent having one of the most stable handicaps.

You would probebly even find the same thing with an early 70's Laser, as the sail does seem to have been improved, and the controls are far better.

Of course, this also partly explains why the handicaps of development classes have changed less than you'd think, as they are getting faster against a moving scale.

Are you saying all PYs are moving down together, I don't believ that is true ...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 09 at 7:28pm

To answer the original question

16 stone and 6'1"

 

 

 

 

 

 

or did I miss the point??!!??

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 09 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

It would be interesting to see a historical graph plotting PY against years for some of the established classes




The International Moth figures don't include foilers.

Edited by JimC
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