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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tactical 'Pop' Quiz
    Posted: 13 Mar 09 at 10:40am
So Ladies...

What is wrong with this statement as printed in that font of all knowledge tactical DSM...

Originally posted by Dinghy Sailing Mag


"For example, if the tide is strong coming in from the left and the oscillating wind shifts
are in the main bending in from the left, then approaching the mark from the left hand
side of the beat is going to be the most advantageous strategy."

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NeilP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 09 at 1:03pm

I can think of several things, which one did you have in mind? The possible tidal lee bow, the confusion over shifts or bends....

GRF, have you been naughty and taken a statement out of context, by any chance?

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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 09 at 1:08pm
I dont think so, go and have a look, I've asked a question for clarification.

Just another example of lack of tactical expertise at high level 'youf' now
lecturing us in print.

And yes, the tidal leebow consideration, the effect the tide will have on
boats already rounding the mark forcing them deep, to name just a couple.
Not to mention the overstanding effect the tide will have on those coming
in from the right hand lay line.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 09 at 3:09pm
Not an awful lot wrong with it. The article is about the
final approach to the windward mark, not the strategy
for the whole beat.

If the current is flowing left-to-right, I'd be looking
to avoid getting on the starboard layline too early at
all costs so "approaching from the left" is a fair call,
I'd say.

"Oscillating wind shifts are in the main bending in from
the left".
That's just a badly-worded description IMO. But if
there's a strong chance of the next shift being a lefty,
then yes, of course that'd also support going up the
last bit of the beat left-of-centre.

I can't spot too much wrong with it.

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NeilP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 09 at 3:25pm

I have to agree with GRF if he hasn't taken this out of context. The layline isn't the issue anyway. Regardless of any other considerations, why would you ever hit the starboard layline early? All that acheives is to leave you trundling along in a queue with absolutely no tactical options.

There is also the issue that if you know the tide is left-to-right, the leebow on the starboard layline will get you in under all the muppets who've overstood because they didn't know.

Final point - if you're writing in a professional capacity in a publication, there is no excuse for ambiguous or downright wrong use of english. Read that windshift bit again. What does it actually mean? Answers on a postcard please

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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 09 at 3:45pm
Well all the strategy I would have planned for a beat in circumstances
described would be an early lee bow off the line (fundamental imv) on
Starboard from the Port end, then if lucky enough to meet a significant
knock bang over early for the requisite time making sure not to go too down
tide and certainly nowhere near the starboard wind based layline, then
another final leebow up to the mark coming from shallow right.

Under no circumstance would I be on either wing if it was shifting around.





Edited by G.R.F.
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NeilP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 09 at 5:38pm

Oh God, what am I going to do now???? Admittedly it's not the most complex strategy problem, but GRF's right on the money. I have to agree with him again!

As a result I can never hold my head up in decent company again, and will have to do the decent thing...

(Footsteps off, muffled gunshot)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Inland sea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 09 at 10:09am
Good stuff their thanks ... but the lee bow bit is a Braithwate for me (whooosh over me heed ) Could you clarify please?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 09 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by Inland sea

Good stuff their thanks ... but the lee bow bit is a Braithwate for me (whooosh over me heed ) Could you clarify please?


Someone will be along in a moment to claim it doesn't exist.
-_
Al
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 09 at 7:37pm
Had an argument once about tidal lee bow, with an Olympic coach, he
didn't get it either and very rudely and abrubtly halted the lecture I'd
been giving his squad on the subject of tidal courses, startlines and the
various strategies best taken to deal with them.

Many year later I had the good fortune to spot him 'coaching' the then
Olympic squad as to the best strategy to approach a particular course and
incoming tidal scenario over a long distance race. His opinion as to the
correct approach to the tide and a wind bend over the cliffs and how and
when to deal with it clearly sketched on a white board for all to see.

My view was exactly opposite to his advice. I wasn't actually going to
enter as I'd only been there to watch, but it was to tempting to resist, so I
did, went for the 'other' cliffs and sailed the four mile beat with the
incoming tide full on my lee bow.

When I got to the windward mark, he and the rest of the Olympic Gravy
Trainers were there in the support boat, their 'squad' yet to arrive, barely
visible as they, followed by the rest of the fleet, were sailing up tide on
the wrong side of the beat about ten minutes behind tide now squarely
on their weather bows.

Leaving them to face the most delectable rant from a 48 yr old retiree on
the merits of volunteers driving all the way to Weymouth at their own
expense to offer tidal lectures to young Olympic aspirants and how best
they should be given the chance to listen next time and how much longer
did they think it would be until they caught up.

Funnily enough I've not been invited back.

So yes, tidal lee bow is often of more overiding import than some
windshifts particularly in sub planing circumstances given the increased
boat/board speed and better VMG achieved when it's favorable.

Edited by G.R.F.
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