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The vortex concept |
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Hector 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 10 May 04 Location: Otley, Yorkshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
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 Topic: The vortex conceptPosted: 23 Feb 07 at 5:09pm |
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I'm not trying to kid anyone here that in light winds, a Vortex is as fast as it's handicap shows. But the 'assasination' of it's lightwind performance on here deserves a response. In fact we can probably all give examples of poor performance from 'high performance' trapeze boats - especially in light winds. So does the fact I've seen an RS200 beat all bar one of the dozen or more Musto Skiffs at the Birkett on the water after 2 hours racing prove that MPSs are dogs in light wind? - NO of course it doesn't - it says more about how fluky light winds can be, and more particularly how it's easier to take advantage in some types of boats. But how do I convince anyone that if you know how to drive a Vortex the performance is there? Obviously not by trying to tell you in my own words, so perhaps by using others ----- Report from Musto Skiff website http://www.mustoskiff.com/reports-and-news/2005/steve-nic-ra ce.htm Conditions were patch and shifty with winds between 0 to 10 knots, not ideal for the trapeze classes. With 33 asymmetrics on the short start line clear air was at a premium and once buried it was a challenge to break free of the fleet in the light conditions. In the strongest winds of the day in race one Richard Stenhouse was superlative and making good use of the stronger puffs broke free of the fleet to win, hotly chased by Kit who finished 3rd with a well sailed vortex splitting the family
OR from this forum, http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2 038&KW=keilder+vortex&TPN=2 ------------When the Vortex's came to Kielder for the SSR grand prix event they performed very well in all conditions. On the fist day it built to a 6 and they di very well, on the 2nd it was less than a 2 and they were still doin very well. Both vortexes were 2nd and 3rd overall with only sten beating them in is Musto. I am personally going for a 600 because keeping the boat upright is more of a challenge and is half the fun So yes, in light winds their handicap isn't favourable, but if sailed well, a Vortex can clearly still get good results - except possibly on the Medway
Edited by Hector |
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Hector
Really should get out more
Joined: 10 May 04 Location: Otley, Yorkshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
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Posted: 23 Feb 07 at 5:07pm |
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Regarding the 6 Vortex at your club, as you possibly know, all bar one of them never has never got in the top half of the open fleet. One of the better ones now sails a Musto - but is still struggling to sail a course, and still gets poor results in light winds - so is it the boat or the sailor? Elswhere on this forum you have alluded to the fact that asymmetrics are disadvantaged on your club courses. As well, I imagine that on the Medway, it pays to hug the bank to cheat the current - and to be honest I can't think of worse conditions for a Vortex than very light winds and short tacking up a bank to stay out of the current. I'd never try to say that having to tack frequently in light winds would be anthing but disasterous for a Vortex on handicap. Another factor? |
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Posted: 23 Feb 07 at 2:19pm |
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I'll be quite happy to see a vortex pitchpole, if he's ahead of me that is
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Medway Maniac
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Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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Posted: 23 Feb 07 at 10:03am |
That would indeed address the light airs problems, but it would be 'cartwheeling for all' above that - I've seen quite a number of Vortex pitchpoles already on the relatively flat conditions of the Medway. Fun for the rest of us, though, I guess |
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WildWood
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Joined: 14 Nov 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 136 |
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Posted: 23 Feb 07 at 9:08am |
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The vortex appears to struggle in lighter winds because of the amount of drag from the twin hulls - they look like mini barges when they aren't going fast. When the breeze is up and they are flying kites they do look like fun, but in lighter airs (up to F2) and racing against a handicap fleet they definitely struggle - I can often keep up in an Enterprise. Maybe they need more sail?! |
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I luv Wight
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Joined: 28 Jan 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 628 |
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Posted: 22 Feb 07 at 7:42pm |
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slightly back on topic.....
there are quite a few 'laser' products that have been dumped, and some still have a successful life afterwards. e.g. Tasar - still going nicely, esp with the new sails. (This was going to be the 2-person laser... but it didn't quite work - a bit technical perhaps for mass market.) Shell - a combi rowing boat, sailing boat, windsurfer. ( this one is very dead!) Laser 2 .... Regatta with Asymmetric kite.... Laser 3000 ... V3000 - still alive in the latest form. Dart 20 .... Mystere cat - dead Dart TSX ... dead ( possibly was a light dart 18 with kite ) Dart 5000 ( a big cat with big main and a teeny tiny asymmetric kite /jib) - dead Dart hurricane 500 - dead Dart 15 - was spark 15 - now super sprint 15 sport sprint Vortex .... see this topic! 4000 - not in production, but still healthy 5000 - not in production - not very healthy?? a lot of these seem to be cats! |
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Villan
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Joined: 26 Nov 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1768 |
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Posted: 22 Feb 07 at 6:34pm |
That was SO last year I'm guessing you sail a "perfect" boat then eh? Or or you just a Troll, Looking for someone to argue with? |
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Vareo - 149 "Secrets"
TandyUK Servers |
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hum3
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 23 Jun 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 247 |
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Posted: 22 Feb 07 at 5:45pm |
really... where? Let's be honest handicap racing is a procession with lots of excuses whatever you decide to sail; some boats have better excuses than others and I'd agree a vortex is full of them.... [/QUOTE] Vareo seems to be "full of them" too. Wasn't there lots of stuff recently about the PYof 1035 being too mean and can we all sail off 1050......... [/QUOTE] Don't start that again... The Vareo can be sailed to 1035 windward - leeward (which is what it was rated for originally), and 1050 is about right around the cans... |
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iwsmithuk
Posting king
Joined: 28 Apr 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 141 |
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Posted: 22 Feb 07 at 5:26pm |
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[/QUOTE] really... where? Let's be honest handicap racing is a procession with lots of excuses whatever you decide to sail; some boats have better excuses than others and I'd agree a vortex is full of them.... [/QUOTE] Vareo seems to be "full of them" too. Wasn't there lots of stuff recently about the PYof 1035 being too mean and can we all sail off 1050......... Edited by iwsmithuk |
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English Dave
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Joined: 10 Aug 06 Location: Northern Ireland Online Status: Offline Posts: 682 |
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Posted: 22 Feb 07 at 1:50pm |
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I may have been sailing badly but I don't think that explains everything. OK that summer was particularly bad for "drifters" and my memory may have been distorted but I found it hard to compete against Lasers downwind. I am not off the pace in either monos or cats so it's hard to believe that I was doing too much wrong. And once there was enough wind to hike or trap then I was having a lot of fun. But I still stick with Medway - the large variance around the average PY of the Vortex makes it a difficult boat to meaningfully handicap race. My point about the Sprint15/Inter17 is similar. If you are in a mono, sailing against other mono's then you can have great PY racing. If you are in a cat, racing others under SCHRC then conditions effect everybody similarly. With the Vortex you are in no-mans-land, sailing like a cat but lumped in with the monos. To be honest the Sprint15 was a bad comparison as they are equally affected. |
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