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New women's Olympic boat

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hobbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New women's Olympic boat
    Posted: 19 Feb 07 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by combat wombat

Originally posted by JimC



The RS800 is going to look big, heavy and somewhat old fashioned in the company, especially with the soft rig. Of course that might be what the panel decide they want.



When it is quicker than a Cherub?  And, soft rig does not old fashioned make. 


As Jim doesn't talk about speed i think he is talking about relative weight and length in regards to in the dinghy park and for storage in containers. As the amount that can be fit in one container and overall cost of transportation are criterias for selection the extra length and weight of an 800 over the competition could be a significant factor, despite speed over the water.

And modern Cherubs have been seen to pace 29er XX's so the difference in PY may only be 18 points and as the Osprey proved 50 years ago, beating the rival boats over the water is no guarantee of sucess.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote BBSCFaithfull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 07 at 9:05pm
Got to be the 14. Faster than all the offerings. And with loads of history and shizz. Hope it gets selected because it would be so funny seeing the girls chasing after the lads 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 07 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by combat wombat

When it is quicker than a Cherub?  And, soft rig does not old fashioned make. 

Speed, is I think quite irrelevant to modernity. After all a 1960ish design Shearwater catamaran, complete with pole/symettric kite, would handily stuff anything in the trials round the track in most conditions.

As for a soft rig not being old fashioned, I guess we'll just have to differ on that. But you may have trouble naming a development class with the choice that didn't abandon them thirty years or more ago...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 07 at 10:33pm
Originally posted by Hobbo

..........as the Osprey proved 50 years ago, beating the rival boats over the water is no guarantee of sucess.


But the Osprey didn't beat the rival boats (if you mean the boats that were selected ie FD and 505) on the water very often. Even when the Osprey was the only boat with a trap (at the end of the first trials), she placed 5,3,6,4 to the FD's 1,1,1,1 and the Hornet's 9,2,4,3.

In 26 races against the FD, the Osprey beat the FD three times - once when the FD was sailed by someone who had never sailed it, once when the FD sailed the wrong course, and once fair and square.

In 13 races against the 505 prototype, the Osprey came out on top twice - once in the race where the FD and the 505 proto went the wrong way, and once fair and square (the same race she beat the FD in).

In the first trials the Osprey finished 4th; in the second she finished 3rd.
Like the claim that the trapeze was invented for the Osprey (the Osprey's own designer said it came frm 14s), the claim that the Osprey beat the opposition in the two IYRU trials is just wrong, yet the class keeps on making it. It's amazing how those trials in the '50s still resonate with the 5-0s and Ospreys and how little what they say has to do with the reality.



Closer to the topic; the last new singlehanded class, the RSX board, came from a builder with no track record in hulls (although it was the world's biggest sailmaker). The RSX had a disastrous start with delayed production and defective gear, despite being backed by very deep pockets in a big marketplace. That may make ISAF even more gun-shy about going with anyone but the two established mass-production builders for the women's skiff.






Edited by CT249
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 07 at 11:05pm
Originally posted by BBSCFaithfull

Got to be the 14. Faster than all the offerings. And with loads of history and shizz. Hope it gets selected because it would be so funny seeing the girls chasing after the lads 


Of all the offerings I think the 14 is the least likely to get the spot. The average size and weight of the 14 fleet is hardly what youd expect from a female orientated class and unless there are any plans to freeze the 14s development the amount of money which would then be poured into the class would out of the reach of a good number of countries...
I agree with the comments of a number of other people in that I think the 14 is simply a benchmark
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hobbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 07 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by CT249

Originally posted by Hobbo

..........as the Osprey proved 50 years ago, beating the rival boats over the water is no guarantee of sucess.


But the Osprey didn't beat the rival boats (if you mean the boats that were selected ie FD and 505) on the water very often. Even when the Osprey was the only boat with a trap (at the end of the first trials), she placed 5,3,6,4 to the FD's 1,1,1,1 and the Hornet's 9,2,4,3.

In 26 races against the FD, the Osprey beat the FD three times - once when the FD was sailed by someone who had never sailed it, once when the FD sailed the wrong course, and once fair and square.

In 13 races against the 505 prototype, the Osprey came out on top twice - once in the race where the FD and the 505 proto went the wrong way, and once fair and square (the same race she beat the FD in).

In the first trials the Osprey finished 4th; in the second she finished 3rd.
Like the claim that the trapeze was invented for the Osprey (the Osprey's own designer said it came frm 14s), the claim that the Osprey beat the opposition in the two IYRU trials is just wrong, yet the class keeps on making it. It's amazing how those trials in the '50s still resonate with the 5-0s and Ospreys and how little what they say has to do with the reality.



Closer to the topic; the last new singlehanded class, the RSX board, came from a builder with no track record in hulls (although it was the world's biggest sailmaker). The RSX had a disastrous start with delayed production and defective gear, despite being backed by very deep pockets in a big marketplace. That may make ISAF even more gun-shy about going with anyone but the two established mass-production builders for the women's skiff.






Thanks for clearing that up, happy to admit i'm wrong, knew the trapeze bit was always bollocks but i din't think that such an unfounded "fact" could survive 50 years, though it not reallysurprising considering the size of the FD sails vs Osprey and their relative handicaps now. Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 07 at 9:50am

But hey, we only have CT249's word for this.  The bloke's always tring to spoil a good line Hobbo..... just have to think up some more murky facts now

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Norbert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 07 at 10:04am
>>>RS800 - A skiff one-design designed by Phil MORRISON, with some modifications to the existing RS800 deck mould<<<

Apologies if this has been covered but does anyone know what modifications they are talking about? Aesthetically i would like to see 49er type wings as opposed to the existing scaffold pole set up.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 07 at 10:57am

As I understand it, the mods are to do with removing the compromises made to allow for single or twin trap, but exactly what those are I don't know. I'd also be interested to know whether the "Olympic" RS800 will measure to existing RS800 rules. Anyone know?

CT249, you know as well as I do that giving people the facts will never stop the Mooseboat propagandists! I fully expect Pierre to come up with a full-blown conspiracy theory, complete with aliens, grassy knolls and shadowy enemy agents and moles in high places at the IYRU. That's a challenge Pierre, do your worst!!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote combat wombat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 07 at 11:00am
The wings aren't being changed, they stay the same.  The major difference is the shape of the cockpit - the standard 800 has a deep cockpit, the modified one has a dished cockpit - the standard one is like the 700, the new one is like the Musto Skiff. 

The original 800 had the more traditional cockpit because it could be sailed single wire.  But, no-one does it so the new boat is much more "trapeze friendly" when crossing the boat fast. 
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