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redback View Drop Down
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Posts: 1502 		Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bouyancy Aids
    Posted: 04 Feb 07 at 11:03pm

I'm not advocating not wearing a bouyancy aid but I do feel the design is poor.  What use a bouyancy aid which rides up the body so that most of it is out of the water?  And I think it particularly bad if its bulk on the chest makes it difficult to climb onto the centreboard.

I'd like to see a design which is disposed around the body such that it is completely emersed when the wearer is in the water and does not bulk out the chest making it difficult to climb onto the board.

I haven't noticed any designers/manufacturers contribute to this forum.
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Posts: 1768 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Villan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 07 at 6:30pm
Anyone at the Tiger this weekend look at the A-Rater guys?

I dont think I saw them wearing BA's!!

Wasn't able to stick around for the prizegiving, But I heard it was bought to the Comitiees attention, so does anyone know what happened?
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Posts: 158 		Post Options Post Options   Quote simsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 07 at 6:21pm

I have had to agree with Jim on this one. I have had experience with both scenario's stated. A bouyancy aid might not make a big difference in light winds and fine weather, but when it gets breezey and you unexpectabley take a dip, you will be thankful.

Why waste energy on trying to keep yourself afloat when it can be better used elsewhere?

It certainly doesnt make you look anymore professional.
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 07 at 5:27pm
Guys, I recommend an experiment - try swimming in reasonably lumpy water for 5 minutes with and without a buoyancy aid. See how easy it is to avoid getting mouthfuls and/or nosefuls of sea water with and without. You'll then be in a position to evaluate whether they are useful or not.
While you're at it you can also evaluate whether you float face up with your mouth and nose clear of the water without a buoyancy aid and might therefre be beter off without one...

The reason why lifejackets are so very big and clumsy is because it requires a great deal of very carefully placed buoyancy to guarantee that you end up with face far enough clear of the water not to drown if unconscious. Such a large amount of buoyancy is impractical for dinghy racing.

The reason for having a buoyancy aid is that the extra 50N of buoyancy makes a big difference in how easy it is to keep your face out of the water in waves. It means you spend a lot less energy in just stopping yourself drowning and so have it available to recover the boat.

Edited by JimC
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Posts: 12 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Deimos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 07 at 11:26am
 

I always thought the buoyancy from anything (incl. buoyancy aids) was not so much to do with the item itself but more the volume of water it displaces (less its own weight). Thus, for 50N buoyancy the thing has to be a certain volume - which means things then come down to where the volume is located and how it is spread around.

I don't like them that much myself and agree that there are some circumstances where they can be more dangerous than helpful. However, I assume somebody has looked at the advantages and disadvantages and the balance comes out in their favour.

Ian
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Posts: 682 		Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 07 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by WildWood

I've windsurfed without a buoyancy aid for years and have never found that I lacked buoyancy.  It's pretty standard practice not to wear on when windsurfing - not entirely sure why... maybe it's because we're such crazy guys... although I believe it is supposed to be more to do with how it affects waterstarting.

If you fall out of a dinghy it can sail on without you, leaving you stranded without anything to hold onto. If you fall off a board the rig falls into the water and it stops pretty quickly. You then have 100+ litres of foam slab within arms reach which is more buoyancy than any PFD. Waterstarting is actually easier with a bouyancy aid. Being slightly higher in the water gives you a better angle for applying MFP and you can fly the rig higher, which is useful in waves and light breezes. The main reason w-surfers don't wear them is that they make you look a bit geeky. Oh, those crazy guys!

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Posts: 1251 		Post Options Post Options   Quote BBSCFaithfull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 07 at 10:25am
I would be more than happy not to wear one! I dont when windsurfing and its fantastic! But yes it would be a bad example to set to young kids! Maybe an age should be set when you don't have to wear one. Say 18?
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 07 at 9:58am
Originally posted by 29er397



I personally hav never had an issue with my henri lloyd one riding up at all. its seems to fit just fine. Could this be more to do with people not finding the right size for themselves?
 


That is a very good point. When I go out to buy one I take forever trying them on to ensure I get one that fits me well and is comfy. I used to have the P&B copy of the Gul Garda but was forever having to pull the zip up round the course and reattach the velcro straps. I now have one that goes over the head and has a wide webbing strap on it to keep it tight to the body. I get full movement and a bouyancy aid that moves with me.

Take time when buy, I see a lot of people who turn up and just grab the first one that takes their fancy.

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29er397 View Drop Down
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Posts: 505 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 29er397 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 07 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by turnturtle

 

good concept redback, but surely this be garuanteed to float you face down in the event of being knocked-out? 



TT if you want to float face up when unconcious wear a life jacket that is what they are designed to do. Bouyancy aids are design to help you float thats it!

Paul


I think i'd rather have no bouyancy aid at all than something thats going to garuntee my body is floating face down when unconcious. Fair enough its not sepcifically designed to keep your face up but it may aswell be as safe as possible. Theres no point in having something floating you if its going to drown you anyway, i think it should cover a middle ground between praticality and saftey - they seem to have done pretty well on design so far.

I might be wrong but i thought that on the higher and faster DVD they are wearing B' aids but underneath their rash vests?

I personally hav never had an issue with my henri lloyd one riding up at all. its seems to fit just fine. Could this be more to do with people not finding the right size for themselves?
 

Edited by 29er397
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WildWood View Drop Down
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Posts: 136 		Post Options Post Options   Quote WildWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 07 at 2:10pm

I've windsurfed without a buoyancy aid for years and have never found that I lacked buoyancy.  It's pretty standard practice not to wear on when windsurfing - not entirely sure why... maybe it's because we're such crazy guys... although I believe it is supposed to be more to do with how it affects waterstarting.

I guess the reason you need to wear them for dinghy sailing is maybe because of liability.  Race organises need to specify a minimum standard of saftey equipment to ensure they aren't liable if something goes wrong.  When windsurfing unless you're racing there isn't anyone else who can be held liable so it isn't an issue because as already said, a wetsuit does provide adequate bouyancy, especially when also wearing a harness.
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