Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Proliferation of single handers |
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redback ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 30 Jan 05 at 10:27am |
I think there is a future in this formula thing. The Fast Sail dinghies are sort of doing the same thing. They are all very similar but not the same but by keeping together they get stength in numbers. We need a lead here - I din't know who was responsible for the cat handicap system but something similar wold be a way of developing some good close racing. Or do we have it already with: 2 man non trapeze and conventional kite = Merlin 2 man non trapeze and no kite = N12 2 man both trapeze and asymmetric = International 14 not forgetting Moths and Cherubs who have their niche. You know looking at it from this context the Cherubs might have made a mistake by going to 2 strings because there's certainly a gap for a one string boat. |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Dunno. about half of SMOD classes fail. Look at the financial history of Topper. Not a pretty sight. So the ones that succeed subsidise the ones that fail. And all Topper's orginal two handers are now pretty much dead. And the startup/marketing costs to persude people they want to get into a new clas must be tremendous. By building to a development class rulee none of the class building and all that has to be done, there's already the organisation, class image, keen sailors etc there. So your startup costs are so much less you probably need to sell a whole lot less boats to get into profit. OK there was a time when you could start a new class and hope it was a cash stream for the next thirty years. But firstly the bean counters don't look that far ahead and secondly nowadays the classes are lasting (with exceptions) maybe ten years at best. It also means they can get into the"this year's model" thing manufacturers like so much without seeming quite so hostile to last years buyers. |
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Scooby_simon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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I think Hobie and Nacra are actually making a mistake here, they sell on longevity and brand. If they make a fast A class, it will be fast for a while and then something else will come along. I'll not be buying the A2 or Hobie offering becasue I don't want to get into an arms race. Says the man who might buy an M18 which will probably be the only one in the country and will spend all his time handicap racing..... |
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Yep, I agree there's too many similar classes and a Formula idea would be a great one to follow. I'm one of those who has to get his ass into gear to follow up Bucko's no-rules singlehanded skiff idea but the foiler Moth has probably made it look a bit outdated. All the F18 guys seemed to be very happy with the multi-manufacturer concept when I did research for an Oz Sailing article last year. The concept is undeniably working although it does mean compromises like the F18's weight.The fact that Hobie and Nacra are even getting into A Class shows how happy they are with the concept, doesn't it? |
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Scooby_simon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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Scooby_simon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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Opps, and I sailed one once.... Doh..... |
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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John ![]() Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 May 04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 12 |
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I understand. But there are now so many competing similar single handed classes (moth not included) eg, RS600,700,Viz,musto,swift etc how many will really survive as a class in 10 years time? The cats on the other hand have teamed up with their new mixed fleet formula classes, F14,F18 etc to get a decent fleet. Maybe those one design monohulls could team up too. Formula overweight and overpowered , Ha Ha! Edited by John |
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Yeah, I knew you could put foils on an HT. I was just musing / wondering about classes 'cause it's too hot to sleep.
I know what you mean, but I still wonder whether a strict OD is "outdated" in some ways, because few of them were ever designed to be leading edge or extreme. If a boat was never aimed at being leading edge, super fast or extreme (like the Laser or Optimist, or 420, or 125) do they become "outdated" when the leading edge moves on? Dunno. The North Haven OD, the oldest OD dinghy, was created in 1886 and it's still sailing and providing a lot of fun to guys like Cam Lewis. If a boat is designed to be a fun OD, and it's still a fun OD, is it outdated? If it's not designed to be leading edge, could you call it "outdated" when it moves further away from leading edge? Maybe, but perhaps criticising a strict OD for being outdated is like criticising a Moth for not beating a speed board on a reach in 35 knots, or not having sleeping accomodation for 6 and a diesel.....it's just not what it's intended to do. I dunno about this, I'm just wondering. I should consult a philosopher I suppose! I'd also love to see development classes prospering and it seems the current marketing approach, which tends to involve casting a few aspersions at ODs, doesn't seem to be working. I saw Rohan's boat out on the water (or out of the water) at Geelong last week. Very impressive. |
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John ![]() Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 May 04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 12 |
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I am not saying that any one Laser (for example) is out of date. It's the nature of any strict one design that since their rules are frozen that the whole class is out of date from conception relative to newer classes or any development class. Also there are plenty of Hungry Tigers with hydrofoils, well four of them so far. |
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Isn't it arguable which gets outdated first? A 2004 non-foil Hungry
Tiger is now outdated as a winning Moth in most conditions, whereas a
1990s Laser (in good condition and little used) is still capable of
winning so therefore it's not outdated as a winning Laser.
I have a '70s Laser and an '80s Moth and I now which one is now considered "outdated"....the Moth for sure. I'm not knocking the wonderful Moth class, I just wonder about the logic of calling a one design "outdated"; if it still does its purpose just as well as it ever did, it's not outdated is it? Is it good marketing for development class sailors (and I'm one of them) to insult the boats of OD sailors? Simon - are you sure about '56 for the A Class? I'm pretty sure they didn't have a "worlds" 'till the late '60s, and even then the first two were held down here with no overseas competitors IIRC. The guy who won them doesn't call himself a world champ for that reason. Other singlehander birth dates; the 1936 Olympic Monotype, sort of like a heavier Finn (!) is still very nopular in Germany and strong in Holland IIRC; the 1912 or 1913 International 12 has a fleet of several hundred in Holland, Italy and Japan. |
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