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Lasers & Radials at your club ...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lasers & Radials at your club ...
    Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 8:13am
At Hunts we allow free swapping between the rigs. We feel that although some of the better guys may change down in big winds and go flying the less experienced can do the same and get and experience the big winds with having to worry so much about death rolls and the like.

If it is a handicap series again rig swapping is allowed but you will always get the fastes handciap that you sail (i.e if a full rig changes down to a radial they will still be scored as a big rig and vice versa).

I will point out we do not have any regular radial rigs sailors though so the perception of fairness does not really come in to it. We do have a lad in 4.7 who regularly wins when it is blowing, he is just making the change up to a radial.

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Blobby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 8:54am
Originally posted by Guest#260

Question is what do you do with the few who chop & change?

Rick

Protest them under Rule 2 - they will soon get the message!

A boat and her owner shall compete in compliance with recognized

principles of sportsmanship and fair play.

One step forwards, 2 steps back...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 10:56am
Originally posted by Blobby

Originally posted by Guest#260

Question is what do you do with the few who chop & change?

Rick

Protest them under Rule 2 - they will soon get the message!

A boat and her owner shall compete in compliance with recognized

principles of sportsmanship and fair play.

Bit extreme for club racing ...

We are just trying to best accomodate the different flavours of Lasers that all race off the same start. ...

Seems to me that people need to opt to sail the Laser or the Radial for the series and the people who switch rigs will have a set of results in each series.

I can see our recorders wanting to time the Lasers and then calculate the results.

Rick

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 12:38pm
Surely as the big boys can change to radials in the big wind, the lighter guys can move up to big rigs in the lighter winds...?  Over a series if both the big guys and small guys chop and change, results should even out.  Although really what you should be doing is giving abuse to the big boys for changing down a rig, sissys!!
Surely a pursuit race style starting sequence could be worked out, would be easier than calculating handicap results at the end of the day. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Doug.H

Surely as the big boys can change to radials in the big wind, the lighter guys can move up to big rigs in the lighter winds...?  Over a series if both the big guys and small guys chop and change, results should even out.


...assuming everyone can afford multiple rigs....

From memory im pretty sure at oxford lasers with all rigs share a startline in their own 'laser' fleet but results are split into radials and fullrigs on handicap. Im not sure where the 4.7 fits in but it seems to work well there.

Rig swapping is allowed but you then have to swap to the handicap (and therefore results sheet) for that rig so if you do it often stringing together a decent series in one fleet is impossible.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 12:49pm

Originally posted by Doug.H

Surely as the big boys can change to radials in the big wind, the lighter guys can move up to big rigs in the lighter winds...?   

Trouble is a 55kg person could get into a heap of trouble if they get caught out in an increasing breeze - they would not be able to right the boat if it capsized - the the combination of extra rig weight and windage in say 20mph means that a full rig is not a sensible option for someone that small.

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

20mph means that a full rig is not a sensible option for someone that small.

Rick



Yeah but think how good they'll be in big winds when they jump back to the radial
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by Doug.H

Originally posted by Guest#260

20mph means that a full rig is not a sensible option for someone that small.

Rick



Yeah but think how good they'll be in big winds when they jump back to the radial

Yeah ... think of all the other sports they may go on to if they have a bad experience... many people using the Radial rig are new to sailing and/or helming and I get really fed up with people chipping at them to use a full rig in some sort of macho display when they clearly could not cope if the wind got up ... one of the most important things you can teach a new sailor is to know your limits.

That's why we should encourage the Radial fleet by not burying them in the standard Laser fleet ...

Rick

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nathan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote nathan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 2:45pm

At my club there is a laser class start, and the radials are let off on the 1 minute gun, and their finishing positions taken over the water. I think the laser/laser radial handicap allows for approx~ 1min30secs a hour difference. Giving the radials a 1min headstart is fairly arbitory. Radials rarely win, but that is largely down to the standard of the full rig sailors being higher, good radial sailors have done well in the past.

It makes finishing easier as the race officer writes the results in a first past the post style.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 10:57pm
It's clearly against the spirit of the Laser class to allow people to swap rigs between big rig and Radial, as far as I can see. It gives the advantage to people who spend more cash. That's not what Lasers are about.

You do become a better high-wind Radialist by sailing big rigs, but you can do that in training, instead of getting an advantage in club racing. And if you're training hard in an average fleet, depending on your weight you may be better off using Radial in light wind, and big rig in strong wind. That brings you back down in the pack and forces you to really work to win.
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