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Symmetrical Spinnakers

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mike ellis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Symmetrical Spinnakers
    Posted: 12 Sep 06 at 8:41pm
i dont think they even let you goose wing the jib on the feva. i havent read the updated class rules yet but thats how i understood it from the breifing at warsash.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 06 at 11:06pm

It's rather a sign of a flawed design for a racing boat that they have to introduce rules to prevent you using the equipment provided to best advantage to sail round the course. It also directly contradicts the requirement to sail your "Proper course"!

People would think it rather bizarre if you weren't allowed to let the mainsail out to go downwind on the grounds that it made the boat go faster and make the racing less tactical .... I can't see any difference between that and the Feva rule of not goosewinging the kite!

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 06 at 11:27pm
Im going to have to see some formal documentation before i believe that you're not allowed to gooseswing sails on any boat.  If they disallow the introduction of specialised poles for gooseswinging then that i'm willing to believe.  But the actual action of goose swinging a sail is by pure choice of the sailor!  You can set your sails how ever you damn well please!  You dont see race officials telling a laser sailor he isnt allowed to sail by the lee. 
Rediculous, i need proof!

Doug

Edited by Doug.H
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 06 at 11:41pm
the 200's banned the use of the wisker pole for goose winging at class events because it spoilt the tactical racing as it became a prosession. If i remember correctly there was nothing to stop u doing it pole less but that took alot of effort and was just plane difficult.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 06 at 4:16pm

doug,

thank you for prompting me to go and look at the class rules. i cant find anything to say we cant goosewing either sail. but the 200s are banned from goose winging with or without a pole, see http://www.rsfevaclass.com/docs/RS_SI_2006_2.pdf

rule 19.3. but that was all i could find in reference to goosewinging.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 06 at 4:35pm
How strange that the class that came in with the "square running system" splashed across it's advertisments now bans it?! Of course, anyone handicap racing can do as they please, but it is most odd. Puts me off the class, really.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 06 at 5:09pm

Originally posted by Rupert

How strange that the class that came in with the "square running system" splashed across it's advertisments now bans it?! Of course, anyone handicap racing can do as they please, but it is most odd. Puts me off the class, really.

http://www.rs-association.com/docs/RS_Nats_SIs_2006_2.pdf

See 21.3.

This came in for all circuit/national events about 1998. You can of course do what you like at local/club events. The SRS works really well and makes the boat very versatile.

It was voted on by the owners - I was against it at the time.

Rick

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 06 at 12:23am
This is all very interesting. I always find at least as many tactics (even if different ones) square running as gybing downwind. One class I sail goes square in light stuff and then gybes through up to 90 degrees in a breeze, so there's an unusual chance to see both in action in the same fleet.

I also notice that even in conventional boats like Lasers and Tasars, the top guys seem to have an uncanny knack of moving right through the fleet with superior tactics (diving low at just the right time, etc) down those "straight line non-tactical" reaches and square runs. Maybe the tactics of reaching and running square are just as important but more subtle than those of gybing downwind and therefore not always seen as easily?

One thing that gets me about gybing downwind is that a boat that has to sail high angles can be (in light winds at least) a bit frustrating, just like sailing a boat that won't point upwind (although not so bad). Always trying to "soak" the boat down and not being able to anywhere near the mark before you start to lose pressure isn't always fun to all of us. In light winds I'd personally sooner sail a boat that run pretty square so I can work little angles, puffs and the fleet near me (partly because you lose less gybing through 10 degrees to chase puffs, than you do through gybing through 90 degrees).

But obviously the 200s and Fevas don't see it like that.

Interesting.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 06 at 9:02am
There seem to be as many different opinions of what constitutes "tactical" racing as their are classes of boat, and each class is convinced that its own provides the very best... the term seems to have come nothing more than a means of sl*gging off other classes, the old cliched "Oh the xxx isn't tactical, its just boatspeed" propaganda. Personally I'm yet to sail a boat where the tactics aren't vitally important. Different emphasis in different boats, maybe, but always vitally important.

And I predict that at least half of the remaining posts in this thread will be attempted justifications of why sl*gging off other boats by saying their racing isn't tactical isn't actually just sl*gging off other boats...

Edited by JimC
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 06 at 9:53am

In general the more distance lost when turning corners the less tactical the class as you can't affort to keep changing direction.

That dosn't mean the class isn't tactical it just shifts the emphasis ...

Of course in the faster classes the winners are the guys who can manouver well so they can be more tactical than the corner bangers...

 

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