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Symmetrical Spinnakers

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Post Options Post Options   Quote No. 5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Symmetrical Spinnakers
    Posted: 11 Sep 06 at 6:46pm

I think an interesting comparison when discussing spinnaker types are the Laser 2 and the Laser 3000, these boats have essentially the same hull but with different rigs, symetrical and asymmetric respectively. However, there is only (if I recall correctly) a 5 point difference in their handicaps, the 3000 having the lower number.

While one class will of course perform better than the other in certain conditions, the closeness in the handicaps suggests there is little difference in performance, as an average, between the two boats. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 06 at 2:28pm

Originally posted by CT249


Assys are definitely faster square running in boats that are fast enough to get the apparent forward, in part because you avoid the problem of the excess leach curve in a symmetrical kite on a reach. The handling benefits are obvious to anyone who used a conventional pole on an old-style 18.

I think CT249's statement sums up what I was going to say, it all depends on the speed of the 2 boats including the Laser 2 and 3000. In situations where it pays to run deep, the 2 will simply walk away from the 3000 but when the 3000 has enough speed to sail angles, theoretically, it should be slightly quicker than the 2 but 5 points on PY isn't too much quicker. I had a Laser 2 when I was a young teenager and my little brother then had a 3000 when he reached his mid teens. The 2 takes more effort and skill on kite hoists and gybes and drops, has barberhaulers for the jib and the rig is tweakier by having diamond shrouds to apply bend in the mast, aswell as regular sheouds. Having sailed both the boats, the 3000 is pretty simplistic compared to the 2 hence easier to get round the cans, which also may be the reason for the 5 point PY difference. We didn't sail the 2 against 3000s but regularly raced against RS400s and when they were trying to go low angles, we'd finish ahead of them across the water.

Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 06 at 4:15pm
goose winging works well in feva's. it got banned after someone at the worlds went goosewing straight down the run and got to the front of the fleet. i wasnt at the worlds but that was the rumor that was going around. it has defineatly been banned though.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 06 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by mike ellis

goose winging works well in feva's. it got banned after someone at the worlds went goosewing straight down the run and got to the front of the fleet. i wasnt at the worlds but that was the rumor that was going around. it has defineatly been banned though.


Wierd *! ?  How can you ban it?  (Not a criticism of you Mike), just a bizarre thing to do.  It's not as though you're adding any go faster bits, just using the equipment to best advantage. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Worthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 06 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by mike ellis

goose winging works well in feva's. it got banned after someone at the worlds went goosewing straight down the run and got to the front of the fleet. i wasnt at the worlds but that was the rumor that was going around. it has defineatly been banned though.


I am confused what rule are they breaking by goose winging?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 06 at 7:25pm
Oh yes, and whilst on the subject of symmetrical spinnys,  the online entry form for next months SGP at Queen Mary is up on the FastSail site.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 06 at 7:28pm

Originally posted by Pierre

Originally posted by mike ellis

goose winging works well in feva's. it got banned after someone at the worlds went goosewing straight down the run and got to the front of the fleet. i wasnt at the worlds but that was the rumor that was going around. it has defineatly been banned though.


Wierd *! ?  How can you ban it?  (Not a criticism of you Mike), just a bizarre thing to do.  It's not as though you're adding any go faster bits, just using the equipment to best advantage. 

i dont know, they just put it in as an amendment to the sailing instructions, as a new class rule. the first i knew about it was at the warsash open a couple of weekends ago, which was blown off

600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
Also International 14, 1318
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 06 at 7:37pm
Good grief, I don't BELIEVE IT!!!!   Just plain silly.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 06 at 7:41pm
I think it is written inot the 200 class rules as well- you can't goosewing the kite. you can goosewing the jib though, with the kite in the bag  (which of these two is outlawed in Feva's?)

Regards to Pierre's comment on using kit to best advantage: you could say the same about rule 42 breaches. Pumping/ooching/sculling/rocking/pumping are all using the kit provided to make the boat go faster. Rules are drawn somewhere, though this one seems a little odd!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tack'ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 06 at 7:50pm
So how are they going to ban heading dead down wind with the boat heeled to 'winward' and the spinny 'rolled out' round the front of the jib.  I can't believe they seem suprised that the quickest way down wind in a heavy non-skiff boat is straight at the mark regardless of the type of kite it has! 
I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
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