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Sailing without safety cover

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sailing without safety cover
    Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 9:18am

Would it be inappropriate to point out that when a dinghy is sailing but not racing or training to race it could be said that the boat and crew are cruising (or daysailing which is cruising lite!).

The whole philosophy of cruising is based around self-help (or mutual aid when boats sail in groups). A basic principle would be - don't get into a situation which you can't get out of on your own.

I wouldn't dream of going out on my own without an adequate anchor and decent paddles (or preferably an oar but I can understand that not many dinghies are equipped for rowing - learn to scull and cut a notch in the stern!). An anchor to stop me drifting away, and a paddle to get home.

Both the Dinghy Cruising Association and the Wayfarer Association publish guidelines that are eminently sensible. I hope everyone appreciates that unless we are all sensible about taking risks then there is an enthusiastic legislator in Westminster or Brussels who is eager to impose unrealistic restrictions on our sport.

 

Gordon DAVIES

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 11:07am

Thankyou, James, for reformulating my remarks so neatly - if you haven't got the appropriate gear on board then you shouldn't be sailing without rescue cover, or at the very least another boat to keep you company. Some boats are not designed to be sailed independently.

On Irish waters, once you get away from the main yachting centres other boats are few and far between. You can't rely on anybody else seeing you if you have a problem, and the lifeboat may take hours to arrive. Not quite the same situation as the Solent on a summer Sunday afternoon.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 11:58am
Originally posted by Contender 541

You fail to pick someone out of the water for whatever reason having put on 'rescue' cover then you are leaving yourself open to a whole heap of nastyness.

You fail to pick someone out of the water for whatever reason having put on 'safety' cover then you are in a grey area and protected from the law to a greater degree.  You only provided safety cover, you never said you would rescue them.

Where did you read this? 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phat Bouy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by Contender 541

Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Contender 541

Rescue?  Safety?

One is there for your rescue and one is there for your safety. 

Same thing??

Yes, same thing. You apparently think otherwise but your post does not give a clue why.

 

One implies a duty of care the other implies you will do something.

You fail to pick someone out of the water for whatever reason having put on 'rescue' cover then you are leaving yourself open to a whole heap of nastyness.

You fail to pick someone out of the water for whatever reason having put on 'safety' cover then you are in a grey area and protected from the law to a greater degree.  You only provided safety cover, you never said you would rescue them.

Nanny - sue me as soon as you look at me - state at its finest

 





If would be very unlikely that anyone would be sued whilst acting as a Safety or Rescue boat as the sailor makes a  declaration of competance and judgement of the conditions as covered in the club's/event's SIs which you agree to before you set sail.




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Post Options Post Options   Quote CurlyBen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Contender 541

You fail to pick someone out of the water for whatever reason having put on 'rescue' cover then you are leaving yourself open to a whole heap of nastyness.

You fail to pick someone out of the water for whatever reason having put on 'safety' cover then you are in a grey area and protected from the law to a greater degree.  You only provided safety cover, you never said you would rescue them.

Where did you read this? 



There was an article on safety/rescue boats recently (I think it was in y&y, but might have been DSM) which did make a distinction between safety and rescue. I don't think it was from a legal perspective, but that a safety boat is there to ensure those sailing (but not their equipment) are safe, whereas a rescue boat will intervene in less serious incidents in which safety is not at risk.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 1:15pm
Thanks for the information but Contender 541's remarks were aimed at lawyers so I'd like to understand what legal sources he is drawing on.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 1:17pm

I doubt very much that there is a legal distinction between the two (I wait to be corrected) in which case it is semantics... from which you can draw comfort or feed your paranoia depending on your character.

I personally don't think the UK will ever get to the same point of litigation as the US because A, we're too cynical and B, we've seen it happen elsewhere and have mostly guarded against it.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote MikeBz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 3:09pm

 Well I'm confused... If a safety boat doesn't rescue you when you're in trouble it's not doing much to ensure your safety...   If a rescue boat rescues you when you're in trouble then it's ensuring your safety...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by MikeBz

 Well I'm confused... If a safety boat doesn't rescue you when you're in trouble it's not doing much to ensure your safety...   If a rescue boat rescues you when you're in trouble then it's ensuring your safety...

Mike

LOL LOLstir it up a bit mike LOL LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 4:49pm

Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Thanks for the information but Contender 541's remarks were aimed at lawyers so I'd like to understand what legal sources he is drawing on.

Time to come clean then......

Just the logical end to an extension of an arguement.

To be honest i cannot be bothered to go trawling for that sort of thing, but I would expect that somwhere and at some time etc.

 

Just to throw some petrol on the fire though

? Why does the RYA advise the use of the word safety instead of rescue ?

Only heresay, not seen the actual wording myself so perhaps I imagined that.

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