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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sailing without safety cover
    Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 11:58am
Originally posted by Contender 541

You fail to pick someone out of the water for whatever reason having put on 'rescue' cover then you are leaving yourself open to a whole heap of nastyness.

You fail to pick someone out of the water for whatever reason having put on 'safety' cover then you are in a grey area and protected from the law to a greater degree.  You only provided safety cover, you never said you would rescue them.

Where did you read this? 
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 11:07am

Thankyou, James, for reformulating my remarks so neatly - if you haven't got the appropriate gear on board then you shouldn't be sailing without rescue cover, or at the very least another boat to keep you company. Some boats are not designed to be sailed independently.

On Irish waters, once you get away from the main yachting centres other boats are few and far between. You can't rely on anybody else seeing you if you have a problem, and the lifeboat may take hours to arrive. Not quite the same situation as the Solent on a summer Sunday afternoon.

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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 9:18am

Would it be inappropriate to point out that when a dinghy is sailing but not racing or training to race it could be said that the boat and crew are cruising (or daysailing which is cruising lite!).

The whole philosophy of cruising is based around self-help (or mutual aid when boats sail in groups). A basic principle would be - don't get into a situation which you can't get out of on your own.

I wouldn't dream of going out on my own without an adequate anchor and decent paddles (or preferably an oar but I can understand that not many dinghies are equipped for rowing - learn to scull and cut a notch in the stern!). An anchor to stop me drifting away, and a paddle to get home.

Both the Dinghy Cruising Association and the Wayfarer Association publish guidelines that are eminently sensible. I hope everyone appreciates that unless we are all sensible about taking risks then there is an enthusiastic legislator in Westminster or Brussels who is eager to impose unrealistic restrictions on our sport.

 

Gordon DAVIES
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Contender 541 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1402 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 7:58am
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Contender 541

Rescue?  Safety?

One is there for your rescue and one is there for your safety. 

Same thing??

Yes, same thing. You apparently think otherwise but your post does not give a clue why.

 

One implies a duty of care the other implies you will do something.

You fail to pick someone out of the water for whatever reason having put on 'rescue' cover then you are leaving yourself open to a whole heap of nastyness.

You fail to pick someone out of the water for whatever reason having put on 'safety' cover then you are in a grey area and protected from the law to a greater degree.  You only provided safety cover, you never said you would rescue them.

Nanny - sue me as soon as you look at me - state at its finest

 
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 7:45am

Originally posted by JimC

My somewhat controversial opinion is that like a lot of these EU things the main thing the RCD does is to make it difficult for one EU country to create regulations that put up barriers to importing things from other EU countries. It doesn't really do an awful lot for the end user other than putting the price of everything up.

RCD also makes it more difficult for non-EU boats to be imported, whether new or second-hand, and to believe this effect and the one you describe were among the objectives of the legislation isn't "controversial"; much of the impetus for the legislation came from the French boatbuilding industry. Does anyone really believe RCD makes sailing safer? It's sailors who make sailing safe or dangerous, not boats.
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 7:37am
Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by Strawberry

I believe "craft intended solely for racing" are excluded from the RCD.

I am not sure that is correct - there are examptions from the RCD I believe for home built boats.

It is correct, Rick. That is the reason, for example, Melges/24s can be sold with the lifeline arrangement they use, which is very comfy for the helm but does not conform to RCD.

 
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 06 at 7:31am
Originally posted by Contender 541

Rescue?  Safety?

One is there for your rescue and one is there for your safety. 

Same thing??

Yes, same thing. You apparently think otherwise but your post does not give a clue why.

 
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Contender 541 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1402 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 06 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

As for the rescue cover issue- I echo isis' point (in the related cherub thread) that any rescue cover is better than none, but the reason my N12 was written off was not becuase of the capsize I initiated through cocky big-breeze gybing antics; it was becuase the rescue cover at the time made some very dumb decisions... that said me and the crew were always safe, which is fundamentally the reason why we have rescue cover in the first place. 

[/SMOD sailor defending cherubby-madness] 

Rescue?  Safety?

One is there for your rescue and one is there for your safety. 

Same thing??

Ask a no win no fee Lawyer (bloody nanny state skumbags)

 

 
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allanorton View Drop Down
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Posts: 228 		Post Options Post Options   Quote allanorton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 06 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by Strawberry

The comment about boats being intentionally badly built originates from a post I read on Sailing Anarchy. The post was from the North American 49er builder, who said that he had to intentionally build the boats below quality, so they would be the same as all the other 9ers. I can't find the post atm, but if i get any spare time i'll have a look.

How's a 49er a smod then?
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Strawberry View Drop Down
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Posts: 1337 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Strawberry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 06 at 5:50pm

My point is that if I build a boat myself and it fails then I have no one to blame but myself. By building the boat I understand it's strengths and weaknesses, and if I put the boat under stresses, which it is not built strong enough for, then that would be my stupidity. However, I will know what those limits are.

If on the other hand I had paid over the odds for a SMOD, I would not know how well it was built, and would not know the limits. Then when it broke I would well peeved.

The comment about boats being intentionally badly built originates from a post I read on Sailing Anarchy. The post was from the North American 49er builder, who said that he had to intentionally build the boats below quality, so they would be the same as all the other 9ers. I can't find the post atm, but if i get any spare time i'll have a look.
Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry
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