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Laser Top Mast Changes

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Laser 173312 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Laser 173312 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Laser Top Mast Changes
    Posted: 28 Nov 08 at 9:05am

In this quaters Laser World there are a number of proposed rule changes and proposal to help with bends in the top mast. Relevant section is

'In the meantime, the builders have made significant progress with the aluminium top mast and, in addition, Clive Humphris (ILCA Technical Officer) has developed a "split collet" to replace the currently riveted mast collar (the primary failure point for the aluminium spars). The "split collet" is essentially a two piece (split longitudinally) plastic cup which inserts into the top of the lower spar and "holds" the upper mast. This removes the mast collar and the need for the rivet allowing one to rotate the mast at will. '

IMO this is much needed as since the introduction of the XD kicker there seems to be much more problem with permanent mast bends and being able to rotate the top would significantly lengthen their life.

Also is a bit on work being done on the sail. With 2 propsals being currently tested.

 

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dave.blakesley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dave.blakesley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 08 at 10:20am
surely if they started releasing a new top section and sails, then a new
handicap will be required? Because the majority of sailors will maintain their
older boats which will have a different performance .... and doesnt changing
the sails defeat the point of a SMOD class..?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 08 at 10:39am

Am i right in understanding that laser are on their Mk6 or 7 sail already? 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote dave.blakesley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 08 at 10:43am
hmmm i wasnt aware of that! Whats the differences between them?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fraggle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 08 at 11:23am

Top section won't effect performance, just longevity of a mast.  I bend mine very very quickly, as do most laser sailors.  You can only straighten them so many times, not having a rivet causing a weak point should help.

The sail is also being looked at in terms of longevity for the full rig.  No design will be approved till after 2012 though I wouldn't have thought.

Yes the radial is on MK6 sails, they get updated everynow and then and the dealers stop selling the previous version.  Not sure what MK the full rig is on. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote dave.blakesley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 08 at 11:35am
but surely if they change the bend characteristics of the top section or the
material its made from then there is the potential for a performance
difference? And whats the difference between the sails, eg, whats the
difference between a MK1 and a MK6?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fraggle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 08 at 11:43am

The bend characteristics aren't changing and it will still be made of the same aluminium.  They're removing the rivet which causes a weak point where all the breaks happen.  If there is no rivet then the mast should last longer.

The MK6 sail was originally designed to make life easier for lighter sailors I think - easier to depower, sure someone like Jon would know better.  As such you'll still find the odd heavy radial sailor using a new MK5 (hard work sourcing them nowadays).  When they first changed I found it hard to get the MK6 going but they've slowly reverted back a bit I think and the difference is minimal.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote dave.blakesley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 08 at 12:04pm
ah ok... why do the breaks happen at that rivet and how are they going to
change the rivet? it must be doing something! lol
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 08 at 12:23pm

To stop the top mast sliding inside the bottom mast there is a collar on the top mast held in place by a rivit.

The rivit is a weak spot and so the top mast is always put in the same orientation leading to shorter life.

I believe they will stop the top mast sliding down the bottom section with a boot in the bottom mast such that no collar is needed on the top mast and as such no rivit which means the top mast can be put in in any orientation leading to longer life.

A very sensible refinement with no performance change

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamesd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 08 at 12:31pm

Originally posted by dave.blakesley

ah ok... why do the breaks happen at that rivet and how are they going to
change the rivet? it must be doing something! lol

you cannot make a hole in something that is acting in tension. it creates a weakness that will fail. a bit like trying to rip something, its alot easier to rip a shirt if you make a small cut with some scissors. the rivet on a laser top mast is there to hold the plastic sleeve at the bottom (the black thing about a foot up from the bottom), that is its only purpose. If you put the top mast in with the rivet facing backwards, then most of the time the rivet is in compression which is fine, but bear away downwind in strong breeze and you can find the mast bending forwards towards the bow (this happens alot if the boat is going slowly, i.e. hitting the back of a wave) the back edge of the mast is now in tension and so is the rivet hole and thats when the problem occurs.

What they are suggesting is a collet. basically a shim that will fit in the top of the bottom section which will do the same job as the sleeves on the top mast, suppot the top mast within the lower.

This will have no effect on the mast stiffness as the added material (i presuming there has to be some) will have no contrabution to the stiffness of the lower section as there is next to nothing in terms of BM at the top of the lower section.

Its a very very good idea and much needed, my only fear is that laser preformance will not back it as they will lose sales on spares and lets face it, they are greedy sods.

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