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New Rule 87

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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Rule 87
    Posted: 27 Nov 08 at 9:22am

"What interests me is that the rule really protects the commercial interests of the likes of Laser and Topper as I am sure there respective class assocations will not give clubs permission to use replica sails."

 

The way round this is to consider Toppers or Lasers with replica sails as "Laser type" or "Topper type" boats not as one-design clss boats. They can then enter club handicap racing, but not one design races. If they do sail in the Laser or Topper fleet it should be made clear that they are not available for one-design prizes. By giving them a small handicap penalty it would be possible to run a Laser and Laser type handicap race. This would not be a problem for us as we already run the 3 Laser rigs as one Laser Handicap fleet.

Replica sails should be reserved for training and very low key club-racing.

 

Gordon

 

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craiggo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 08 at 9:58am
So if I read this correctly, I am now entitled to hit all the marks during club racing with no penalty, because my class rules say its allowed.

Seems a touch unfair but heh ho!

Regarding the replica sails, I would have thought that a local amendment to rule 87 in your club handbook to allow replica sails would suffice.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 08 at 10:10am

Originally posted by craiggo

So if I read this correctly, I am now entitled to hit all the marks during club racing with no penalty, because my class rules say its allowed. .

I believe that is an RS event SI not part of the RS class rules

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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 08 at 11:12am
Ok Rick fair point, and I wasnt really being serious, but it highlights the point that a class could have a rule that isnt really in keeping with club racing. This rule would then have to be implemented at club level.

I think you have to use a certain amount of common sense, and therefore local amendments should be acceptable to ensure that this prevails.

Adding a line in your handbook that your club has a local amendment to rule 87, along the lines of, " Boats sailing with replica sails will be deemed to be sailing within class during club racing, however if the club is holding an official class event then official class rules apply".
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jlecou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 08 at 12:47pm

I have been considering how to amend our club's Sailing Instructions to allow replica sails in [low key!] club racing and, prior to reading this thread, was proposing the following:

 

"2.7     Replica Sails: If a competitor wishes to take part in a Club series and/or cup race in a Single Manufacturer One Design (SMOD) with a non manufacturer provided sail, that competitor must obtain the prior approval of the relevant Class Captain (or, in the case of the Class Captain, the Sailing Secretary) to use such a sail.  RRS 87 shall not apply."

 

Is this adequate?  Can a club's SI's can overturn a RRS rule that prevents that Club's SI's overturning a Class Association rule?

 
James
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 08 at 12:58pm

In these times of credit cunch is it not better that people race with a "training"sail rather then be pushed out of the racing altogether,which may be the only reason why they are at the club anyway & so leave the club the club & becomes poorer for the loss!.

In the case of "training sails" there is usually NO advangage to sailing with one over an orginal other then price & as such I am happy to race & lose to them if they sailed better then me ( which is most days ).

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fraggle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 08 at 1:29pm

Agree with Bert.  I can't see any issues with practice sails being used for club racing, surely we all want to see as many people sailing as possible.

The sails don't give any performance advantage and I have no issue with people using them.  I use a practice sail myself and have never had anyone complain to me about it.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 08 at 1:43pm

The replica sails available at the moment may not give a performance advantage (but who knows?), but without some sort of rule where might it end?  A slightly flatter cut replica Laser sail for lakes? A very small, bit performance gaining, amount of roach in a Tooper sail? 

You can't have your cake and eat it.  If you buy a SMOD, there are pro's and cons.  One of the cons is that you don't get you pick your sailmaker.  I think I might start a new thread about this.

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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 08 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

I suspect it is highly unlikley that any Merlins remove their lead for club racing.

Interesting you should say that Rick as I remember a N12 sailor who said the first thing he does when he buys a new boat was take all the lead out. The justification being that 'it's bound to weigh more now than when it was measured'.

That sailor now sails a Merlin at...... WYC

Personally I think anyone who deliberately alters their boat in a way they know to be illegal in an attempt to gain an advantage is guilty of breaching rule 69. Using a replica sail does not fall into this category as the prime reason is cost not performance.



Edited by Matt Jackson
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fraggle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 08 at 3:06pm

No one would want their practice sail to be cut differently to an official sail to gain any advantage. 

I use my practice sail so I can afford to sail lots with a reasonable sail (rather than the old rag I used to use for club racing).  I want it identical to my official sail so that what I learn in the practice sail is relevant.  Any difference in cut would make a practice sail not a practice sail.

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