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dics View Drop Down
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Posts: 317 		Post Options Post Options   Quote dics Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Devotti Single Hander
    Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 1:24pm

Originally posted by jeffers


Dics

You are missing the point here. Whilst YOU (and a limited number of others) might want a Blaze with a kite (and there is nothing stopping you buying one and putting a kite on it) the majority (almost unanimously at the AGM where it was last discussed) voted no. Try sailing one in a good breeze you do not want or need a kite, the boat flies without it!

As for the 'Fat boy Blaze' there is a gap. Phantoms are like hens teeth and to get a good one you are looking at spending upwards of £4.5k for a competitive boat plus they are still a huge handful when it gets breezy (needing stupid amounts of vang and rake upwind and needing to let the vang off each time you tack). You can pick up a good Mk 1 Blaze for around £1,500 then just buy the bigger rig (probably around £1k). Having sailed a Blaze for 2 years I loved the boat but had to give it up for personal reasons. At some point in the future I will step back in to one. Were the class to adopt an assymetric I probably would not.

Thanks for enlightening me re the "fat boy boat" bit. Although I think the concept of a bigger rig is probably more thought out than just to make a cheap alternative to another class. Besides didn't the Blaze start off with a bigger rig?

Although on the other point I don't particularly want a Blaze with a kite, but a single handed hiker with a kite (not a vareo) that would be faster than a 300, and as Mike posted the Blaze picture, went on about the new rig it and the consensus here surely was a natural question. So no need to get on the defensive - I wasn't ME voting for the kite at the AGM. Also buying a boat and putting a kite on it is not really an answer. Call me old fashioned but when I buy a boat I also want to buy into the class and support it. Buying a boat and then making class illegal kind of goes against the grain for me.

 
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by Nick Peters

But if you want to be quick upwind as well as down -
you need less weight, narrower w/l and more leverage.


 


 



Or a sliding mast foot base via a track...
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hollandsd View Drop Down
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Posts: 853 		Post Options Post Options   Quote hollandsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 1:48pm

the only problem with that is the rig tension would cause problems in moving the mast, or moving the mast may cause problems in rig tension, most modern stayed boats run a fairly high rig tension....
Laser 184084
Tasar 3501
RS600 698
RS600 782
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Philsy View Drop Down
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Posts: 344 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Philsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by Nick Peters

Phil - James is right - although he is a bit brutal
on the Vareo . the Vareo is great at what it does - but it is restricted
by leverage (I know someone who put wings on a Vareo and went up 2
gears upwind as you would expect). It retails for £4995 - what James
describes would probably be same price as 700 / MPS.


the package is pretty good - we sold 44 last year! But if you want to be
quick upwind as well as down - you need less weight, narrower w/l and
more leverage.


 


 



I've been seriously considering a Vareo for some time, but keep getting
thrown by comments on forums...
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Nick Peters View Drop Down
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Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Peters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 1:51pm

Planet turtle sounds about right to me...

GRF - I remember a sad day when I took my SB2 to the tip - I have regretted that loads since - I have a board now, but it is a short fat barn door which is about all I'm good for...

 
Nick


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Steve411 View Drop Down
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Posts: 705 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 2:21pm

Originally posted by getafix

I recall posting on the need for a 'box rule' in a similar thread some time back.... in fairness, I think Mr Peters hits on one of the main issues with this type of boat

"But the downsides to most hiking singlehanders is pace upwind."

....not easily solved without a pretty deep board and a decent high-aspect sail/wing, which then means you need plenty of leverage (e.g wings) to get the whole thing to work....

Getting downwind quick is not as challenging (in terms of developed technologies/techniques) but still presents some issues which designers would need to overcome, not least of which to make something usable across a wide wind range and across a range of water types and sizes...

Trimaran singlehander (e.g. Weta) not appealing, as most of us like monohulls and they take up much less space in boat parks as long as the wings 'fold or retract'.

Perhaps in a lot of ways, the foiling moth is off on the right path, but it's too tweaky for many mortals and 75Kg+ guys will not be competitive as it is, scaling it up may provide a stop-gap but it's a pig to launch and not too suitable to smaller or confined bits of water as turning corners is not as easy as without the hydrofoils.

We have a pool of very decent design and building talent in this country, it would be very exciting to see what they came up with!

Like the RS300, then! Pretty much the same speed as a Fireball upwind, even in trapezing conditions.

You don't necessarily need a kite downwind to make life exciting. The 300 scares the willies out of me every time I bear away! By the way, the 300 could go a lot faster if we could prevent the nosediving when the breeze kicks up - perhaps a T foil? Wouldn't have to back off downwind then in a force 5+.

A foiler with a 10 sq m rig would be interesting too for those of us too heavy for an Int Moth...

Steve B

 

 
Steve B
RS300 411

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Jamesd View Drop Down
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Posts: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamesd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 2:33pm

That blaze with the kite on was seriously quick. considering the boat looks like and weighs like it was a prototype to the ark it seriously shifted. it was faster than a very well sailed 400 downwind in a F4+ and blazes do go rather well upwind.

i think it was a great boat and was very well engineered and if you took the same rig, racks kite system and brought the hull up to date by narrowing it and reducing the weight i believe you would easily hit a py of 950.

also Nick said about racks on a vareo. i remember a very small guy at my club who is extremely clever, had a vareo, fitted wings on it and put a 200 (i think) kite on it which is smaller. that went like the clappers when it got going.

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Philsy View Drop Down
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Posts: 344 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Philsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 2:35pm
Maybe RS should consider producing racks for the Vareo to create, well, a
Vareo RS...
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Jamesd View Drop Down
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Posts: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamesd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by Steve411

You don't necessarily need a kite downwind to make life exciting.

totally agree. ive sailed many things from i14s and 49ers to mirrors and all of my most memorable experiences and the thing i enjoy the most is going downwind in a laser in big waves, and the freedom to run off by the lee or cut up on a broad reach.

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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

would aim for upwind performance
similar to a 300; reaching performance of a Blaze & downwind performance of Vareo....


Last time I watched, in most conditions the 300 easily had the legs of Blazes and Varos reaching and running.


Edited by JimC
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