New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Devotti Single Hander
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Devotti Single Hander

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 7891011 95>
Author
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048
Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Devotti Single Hander
    Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 11:53am
Originally posted by dics

Have I missed something? (most probably). Why is Blaze 720 developing a fat mans boat when we already have the Phantom and now the Rooster"extra big" Laser? Surely this is the ideal oppertunity to put a kite on the Blaze as well as a bigger main and rename it as a new class. Otherwise what would difference be? Now a Blaze with a kite going faster than a 300 I would certain be most interested provided it was as elegant to handle.



Dics

You are missing the point here. Whilst YOU (and a limited number of others) might want a Blaze with a kite (and there is nothing stopping you buying one and putting a kite on it) the majority (almost unanimously at the AGM where it was last discussed) voted no. Try sailing one in a good breeze you do not want or need a kite, the boat flies without it!

As for the 'Fat boy Blaze' there is a gap. Phantoms are like hens teeth and to get a good one you are looking at spending upwards of £4.5k for a competitive boat plus they are still a huge handful when it gets breezy (needing stupid amounts of vang and rake upwind and needing to let the vang off each time you tack). You can pick up a good Mk 1 Blaze for around £1,500 then just buy the bigger rig (probably around £1k). Having sailed a Blaze for 2 years I loved the boat but had to give it up for personal reasons. At some point in the future I will step back in to one. Were the class to adopt an assymetric I probably would not.
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
Merlinboy View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 03 Jul 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3169
Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 11:54am
Sounds liek a bit of an arms race to me Chew?  I like the idea of buying a new boat and it not been out classed for its life in my ownership.  Been there done that with the 14.
Back to Top
Philsy View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 344
Post Options Post Options   Quote Philsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by Nick Peters

Always been interested personally - for years while
tolley-dollying for the kids I'd jump in the 700 - make a muppet of myself
and think I need toestraps and to stay on the side! But the downsides to
most hiking singlehanders is pace upwind.


Sorry, not meaning to slyly give a "scoop" from RS. We have several times
looked at a boat like this - but its a very big step do a new boat these days.
Always interested in opinion from this forum - and all keen sailors - it all
helps to mould future plans.


 



How would such a boat be different to your Vareo?
Back to Top
hollandsd View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 853
Post Options Post Options   Quote hollandsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 12:32pm
its a good idea i think to have a multi design class, each boat could have a handicap within the class depending on its design era and then as the new boats get faster you could change the handicap so they are on par witht the older designs? then each boat could have a seperate handiap for handicap racing and the older designs would be as competitive in the racing as new ones?

Edited by hollandsd
Laser 184084
Tasar 3501
RS600 698
RS600 782
Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028
Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by Chew my RS

<FONT face=Helv size=2>

This talk of a single handed hiking boat with kite has got me thinking
again.


There appears to be quite a few manufacturers who seem interested,
or have at least identified a potential gap in the market. Rather than
making rival products, which reduce potential fleet numbers (e.g. ISO v
L4000, MPS v 700), wouldn't it be great if they got together and agreed a
general set of parameters for a new class? Lets say 4m long, 1m waterline
beam, 1.8m max beam, hull weight 60kg, sail area 8sqm (and 8sqm kite),
no carbon in the hull or foils, RRP £7k, built from female moulds. The
numbers are made up of the top of my head, but you get the gist.


That way, each manufacturer could develop a boat, but it would race
within a class, rather than just be a seperate SMOD. I suppose the nearest
model to what I'm imagining is the Formula 18 cats. In my opinion the
biggest advantages SMODs have is not the (fallacy of a) level playing field,
but the ease of purchase and ownership they offer and the fact that they
can sacrifice some performance for ease of use. The downsides of a
SMOD include the fact that they outdate and can be lacking in refinement.
Making updates to a SMOD is a difficult and sometimes unpopular
process.


So, my thinking is that each manufacturer could launch a SMOD that
fits within the basic rules. The sailor would buy their preferred boat and
could not then alter it - much like a SMOD. Person A might buy the Cirrus
design, person B the RS one and person C the Devoti design. Every two
years, on the 1st March (just in time for the Dinghy Show) the
manufacturers could release new designs, in the hope of geetting back to
the front of the fleet.


This would allow the sailors to keep sailing a class that evolves with
technology and would allow the manufacturers to keep refreshing their
product range - a win/win situation. It would encourage class stalwarts to
buy new boats regularly and provide a good source of second hand boats.


Could such an idea be workable?



That's pretty much what drove the windsurf racing model over the years.

A restricted class to certain measurements with sail and board builders
vying for the front of the fleet and jockeys 'assisted' to stay there, it
worked up until the point it became 'Unlimited'.
Back to Top
Chew my RS View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 790
Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 12:55pm
And it seems to work in F18 too.  As you say, it is important that the rules remain focused and are not slackened off over they years to gain extra performance at the expense of cost and difficulty.
http://www.sailns14.org - The ultimate family raceboat now available in the UK
Back to Top
Nick Peters View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 08 Feb 06
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 192
Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Peters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 1:05pm

Phil - James is right - although he is a bit brutal on the Vareo . the Vareo is great at what it does - but it is restricted by leverage (I know someone who put wings on a Vareo and went up 2 gears upwind as you would expect). It retails for £4995 - what James describes would probably be same price as 700 / MPS.

the package is pretty good - we sold 44 last year! But if you want to be quick upwind as well as down - you need less weight, narrower w/l and more leverage.

 

 

Nick


Back to Top
getafix View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2143
Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 1:12pm
I recall posting on the need for a 'box rule' in a similar thread some time back.... in fairness, I think Mr Peters hits on one of the main issues with this type of boat

"But the downsides to most hiking singlehanders is pace upwind."

....not easily solved without a pretty deep board and a decent high-aspect sail/wing, which then means you need plenty of leverage (e.g wings) to get the whole thing to work....

Getting downwind quick is not as challenging (in terms of developed technologies/techniques) but still presents some issues which designers would need to overcome, not least of which to make something usable across a wide wind range and across a range of water types and sizes...

Trimaran singlehander (e.g. Weta) not appealing, as most of us like monohulls and they take up much less space in boat parks as long as the wings 'fold or retract'.

Perhaps in a lot of ways, the foiling moth is off on the right path, but it's too tweaky for many mortals and 75Kg+ guys will not be competitive as it is, scaling it up may provide a stop-gap but it's a pig to launch and not too suitable to smaller or confined bits of water as turning corners is not as easy as without the hydrofoils.

We have a pool of very decent design and building talent in this country, it would be very exciting to see what they came up with!
Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one
Back to Top
getafix View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2143
Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

it would be purpose built for racing Phil! At best the Vareo is beach boat
with some optional extras and some vareo owners have expressed their
concern at pushing the boat beyond its limits.

So here's my wish-list:

1) a stiff, epoxy hull reinforced with carbon at the shroud plates/forestay
mount...
2) add carbon racks to get a better righting moment and upwind planning
potential...
3) add tramps with built in pussy pads for ergonomics and you've got the
ultimate comfort for minimum weight, armchair racing on wednesday
nights!
4) lightweight rudder, not a lump of FRP mounted into a heavy, off the
shelf, seasure stock
4) swing keel for grumpfs...

Oh yes, and fundamentally ammend the rig to full carbon, (not alloy n
glass mix) add proper shrouds & lowers (adjustable as an optional extra)
and add a nice light carbon boom to ensure the gybes are even sweeter;
reduce the gennaker size or recut to flatter shape for higher angles,
although accepted, the racks would make a difference on righting
moment.

deposit's in the post Nick


ref no.4, to what do you refer?
Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one
Back to Top
craiggo View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1810
Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 1:20pm
James your basically describing an international canoe with wings instead of a sliding seat.

I just cant see any realistic way of making a sensible boat of this type that can hit a PY of 950. Remember your looking for something thats effectively got to be on the pace with a Fireball, Contender or Hornet without its spinnaker, thats one hell of a challenge not only to design but to sail.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 7891011 95>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy