New Boat from Laser?

Originally posted by tack'ho If performance is at the top no plastic boat is gonna beat its GRP contempary (at the moment) so only when you start to factor in cost and robustness do you end up coming up with plastic boats.

So what's the difference going to be between otherwise identical boats? 5 points of PY number? Maybe 10 points tops? About the same performance difference you'd get from making the hull 3 inches longer...

If you don't want a thermoplastic boat for another reason - ie you don't like the idea, - in the same way that other folk will only have varnished wood boats - then that's fine, but what I'm saying is that when you've made the decision to buy a boat that is in that sort of performance bracket anyway then there's no rational justification for making a small difference in performance a deciding factor.

Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by tack'ho is plastic lighter or stiffer than GRP or carbon.  No it's cheep and bash proof ergo it's good for training/cruising boats.  That's not an argument for not using it for one design racing boats though, its just an argument for not using it for an open rules class. The whole point of a one design is that it doesn't need to be an ultimately fast boat, it just needs to be the same as others of the class, and a nice boat to sail. Its not really any more valid to criticise a Vago for not being as stiff as a Buzz as it is to criticise a Buzz for not being as stiff as a carbon Cherub. If you want to sail a moderate performance boat - and why shouldn't you, those are the most popular boats - I don't really think the stiffness or otherwise of the hull material ought to be up the top of the decision factors. Admittedly weight would be a factor for me, but that eliminates uncored csm glass/polyester boats pretty much as throughly as it does the thermoplastics. A GP 14 or an Albacore are great racing boats for an awful lot of people, but they are hardly lighter than a thermoplastic equivalent...

on this principle any racing boat is good as long as it is the same as all the others.  So Y&Y might as well stop doing boat tests altogether.  Whenever I compare products I look at the features I want and list them in a priority order, now if lots of other boats to race again is at the top... then no new design regardless of  material is gonna win.  If performance is at the top no plastic boat is gonna beat its GRP contempary (at the moment) so only when you start to factor in cost and robustness do you end up coming up with plastic boats.  Even then IMHO at the moment the tade offs are too great to justify the limited benefits (I see only the 2 mentioned above).  Their growing popularity owes as much to good marketing as it does to good product.  I'm not saying the Vago is bad just that Fireballs etc are currently better according to the way I rate boats.  Now when I think which boat would I have to teach a bunch of school kids to sail in from a centre wiith a decent slip way I'm immeditely drawn to the plasic boats like the topper/pico etc. Its horse for courses and at the moment the plastics boats are the steady dependable mares but not something i'd wanna take to the jumps.  

Originally posted by NickA 'taint cheap.... ...You can have a GRP boat for the same price (RS500) or even a UK hand built foam sandwich boat for only a little more (V3000)... ... it's just more profitable!

i think the rs500 is about 10% more than a vago and will come from half way round the world in a container!

Originally posted by tack'ho is plastic lighter or stiffer than GRP or carbon.  No it's cheep and bash proof ergo it's good for training/cruising boats.

That's not an argument for not using it for one design racing boats though, its just an argument for not using it for an open rules class.

The whole point of a one design is that it doesn't need to be an ultimately fast boat, it just needs to be the same as others of the class, and a nice boat to sail.

Its not really any more valid to criticise a Vago for not being as stiff as a Buzz as it is to criticise a Buzz for not being as stiff as a carbon Cherub.

If you want to sail a moderate performance boat - and why shouldn't you, those are the most popular boats - I don't really think the stiffness or otherwise of the hull material ought to be up the top of the decision factors. Admittedly weight would be a factor for me, but that eliminates uncored csm glass/polyester boats pretty much as throughly as it does the thermoplastics. A GP 14 or an Albacore are great racing boats for an awful lot of people, but they are hardly lighter than a thermoplastic equivalent...

Sumo, I will come out in support of the Vago as well.  It has taken a year for me to decide I like after all which is really down to learning to sail it properly. Sailed well it really is fast as long as its on the plane and it will give a fireball some trouble. But if you can't sail it well it'll be painfully slow. Having said that, Laser did overstate its performace in the early days.

On the mast front there's plenty of flex - just look at one to see.  It might not accelerate like a 29er but that's a weight & sail area issue rather than a need for a carbon mast. Would be interesting to compare with the pre-production hull which was GRP - used at the Jan 2005 boatshow.  Wonder what Laser did with that?

Yes its plastic - thats why its affordable & it is a good design compromise. You just have to get over the plastic v GRP prejudice.