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Symmetrical Spinnakers

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NickA View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 1:59pm

Except in the matter of ease of use  (and faster launch speed for really big ones), is anyone claiming that asymetrics are in any way "better" than symetrics?  In what way?

Can an asymetric run a bit higher (and hence faster) due to the tighter luff?  Is the shape somehow more efficient?

I note that big yachts always (appear to) have symetric kites - but that could be because they rarely sail faster than wind speed (but then, nor do some modern asymetric dinghies)



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 2:04pm

Originally posted by NickA

 note that big yachts always have symetric kites

No, actually. See, for example, almost the entire J-Boats family, VOR70s, IACC boats. I think you will also find VO70s are capable of sailing faster than the true wind in certain conditions.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by NickA

 note that big yachts always have symetric kites

No, actually. See, for example, almost the entire J-Boats family.

Many racing yachts will carry both, to suit the conditions, provided class rules allow. Infact, wasn't there, in the old days, a sail called a "cruising chute" or something, which was asymmetric?

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by NickA

Except in the matter of ease of use ... is anyone claiming that asymetrics are in any way "better" than symetrics?  In what way?


Can an asymetric run a bit higher (and hence faster) due to the tighter luff?  Is the shape somehow more efficient?



I don't know that asymettrics necessarily have a tighter luff: its all in the design. Some sails and sailmaketrs are cut tighter than others.

The shape certainly ought to be a lot more efficient with an asymettric. The fullness in any sail has a tendency to drift back, and you really want it in the front, so if you start with a sail with the fuillness in the middle then you are already starting in a position of weakness. Thus with a well cut asymettric you have more shape in the front where you need it, and less hook in the leach for a cleaner exhaust and less backwind onto the mainsail. Caveat - there are some pretty dreadful asymettics out there, especially the earlier ones, and of course some designs preserve pretty old fashioned shapes.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 3:15pm

J-boats, yes indeed, but as it says in their brochure:

"Theirs is the so-called racer/cruiser category: boats that perform well enough to race but which are comfortable and easy enough for the family to daysail and cruise"

Also cruising shutes, I'm familiar with, but always thought they were for flotilla sailors (like me!) who can't be trusted with a "real" spinnaker.

I was thinking more of Americas cup giants where launch difficulty isn't an issue but raw performance is.  Any of those have asymetrics?



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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by NickA

I was thinking more of Americas cup giants where launch difficulty isn't an issue but raw performance is.  Any of those have asymetrics?


Oh yes, definitely.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 4:52pm

But set off a mast mounted movable pole or a fixed / slightly-movable bowsprit? 

This one is flown from a spinnaker pole, so it looks like a dinghy symetric & the sail looks pretty symetrical too.  BUT in the 2nd photo, the kite is inside out, indicating that it is at least gybed like an asymetric!   IE they reversed the kite during a gybe, reattaching the pole to the same corner of the sail?  Best of both worlds?

Here's a decent summary:

http://saltashsc.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=lessondb&am p;am p;action=display&thread=1122591041

forgive my ignorance, but I'm fascinated.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 5:07pm
The ACCs are set off a conventional pole. Class rules prohibit the fixed sprit.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 6:01pm

I believe the IACCs have to disconnect the forestay in order to gybe. Ooh er.

"Theirs is the so-called racer/cruiser category: boats that perform well enough to race but which are comfortable and easy enough for the family to daysail and cruise"

That's the boat-show cushion syndrome. "Yes dear, of course it isn't just for me to race with my beer-drinking buddies. Look at those comfy cushions, it's a perfect cruiser too." The smaller J's are definitely raceboats.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 06 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

"Yes dear, of course it isn't just for me to race with my beer-drinking buddies. Look at those comfy cushions"

Nice one Stefan, I must try that line!  Certainly look like excellent boats.

NB: do they REALLY disconnect the forestay? or just pull back the pole and reclip it on the new side.  Is someone pulling my leg perchance? 

 



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