Hardest nationals to win?

If you want to try and win a nationals this year, I suggest the Tasar.  The prize for the highest placed dacron boat is a new set of mylars - must be worth £800.  They usually get about 30 boats out, and most of the top guys will have made the switch to mylar by now anyway, so there will probably only be a dozen or so boats to beat.  Seems like good odds for such a good prize.

Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd Originally posted by CT249 It sounds a lot like what was quoted! Only if you read it carelessly. You have deleted the qualifications I made.

You said "Boat tune, at the level applied by dinghy and keelboat sailors, barely comes into it."

I left out the "at the level applied by dinghy and keelboat sailors" to keep the quote short, but only because it was obviously irrelevant given that the discussion was about comparing the tuning of dinghy and keelboat sailors to windsurfers, and therefore any mention of the level of dinghy and keelboat sailors' tune was tautology.

Obviously in a discussion of the tuning of dinghy and keelboat sailors versus the tuning of windsurfers, the level of  tuning in the former is a  factor.

 Comparing reasonably similar classes (ie International Canoes v Division 2 development boards, Windsurfers One Designs v Lasers) in which the fleets I sail in have similar world ranking and in which I have sailed with success at national level, I would certainly hesitate to say that tune "barely comes into it" in boards compared to boats.

For example, the guys I windsurf against seem to be VERY cluey about tweaks. Their record includes Olympic 470 rep, 1st and 2nd in the 18 Foot Skiff worlds, 1st or 2nd in the Tornado Euros, 3rd in two-man dinghy in Youth worlds, 3rd in 29er worlds, and better results nationally.

Sailors with this sort of tweaking knowledge are then put in an environment (boards) where very rigid sailcloth on carbon spars means that the sails respond dramatically to minute tweaks (one multi world champ in boards says that she adjusts her clew 6-8 times per beat, over a range of some 5mm....staggering to think she could tell the difference but I'm convinced she can given the standard at which she sails and the way the rig reacts to tiny movements) and this means that tweaking and tuning certainly does matter.

I would, however, agree that this sort of discussion is impossible to be dogmatic about, because it depends on your vantage point. Surely no one who has sailed dinghies can sail boards without their viewpoint being influenced by the type they came from. I find it hard to assess how Laser sailors think, for example, because I've been fascinated by the technical side of sailing and I tend to assume all Laser sailors are the same and come from the same angle.

PS why do younger sailors do better in Lasers and boards? Largely because older sailors aren't up to the physical demands. I used to train against a guy who got a PhD about Laser sailing, they're not all intellectual lightweights.


Edited by CT249

Originally posted by turnturtle Is that the same Dad who owns the TP52 Sally, or is it your new dad who mum met in a taverna in Falaraki in june?

That's a horrible thing to say. I won't sit next to you in class anymore.

Originally posted by Graemef Typical dinghy sailor twaddle. The Crew weight v's the wind speed v' the displacement volume v's hull weight make far more difference than any twiddling with bits of wire as to how the sail sets, even I've spotted that much with the limited time I've been paying attention. Five will get you ten, the newest lightest hull matched to the newest lightest sail, matched to the highest displacement hull volume, crewed by the tallest lightest team will win in light to medium wind conditions even on your precious Int 14 events. Given they are sailors with the necessary skills to win any championship in the first place. My point here, is once you have the skill necessary to win a championships, you should have acrued enough knowledge to spot all the other factors. Having said that we have a windsurfer over on the Boards forum who claims to have won a Moth Nationals who wouldn't have a clue these days how to win a windsurfing event, although he could probably still come and thrash your collective asses. Racing boards can be just as techy, the sail does need to be tuned, and if its open selected for certain performance criterior, and remember windsurfing sails are way more advanced than these rags from the dark ages y'all are still using.

Paging all olympic Star hopefuls.....Stop wasting your time doing your expensive two boat tuning sessions, you'r doing it all wrong!

If my boats rig is from the dark ages that doesn't say alot about the windsurfer rigs form which it was obviously derived.  

And actually in my experience  (try it you might like it) the need to at least have a good set up extends quite some way down into the club sailors.  I was in the front end of an ent that lost a 12 race club series by 4 feet (equal on points and count back going into the last race) and we were only at decent open level quality.

Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd Originally posted by CT249 The claim was that tuning "barely comes into it". That isn't what I actually said.

Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more



Joined: 03 Aug 04
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Posted: 11 Aug 06 at 6:38am | IP Logged

Graemef wrote: . Boards or Boats, makes no difference. Me, I've done one designs and I've done what we call open class which is the equivalent of development I guess .

If you think you could win an I14 Worlds or a Merlin Rocket Nationals by "throwing money at it" you are deeply mistaken. I've also raced boards and dinghies, OD and development classes and there is absolutely no comparison. Board sailing is basically an athletic discipline. Boat tune, at the level applied by dinghy and keelboat sailors, barely comes into it."

The above comes from SL. It sounds a lot like what was quoted!

One of the lessons of time in boards (at the sharp end of national fleets in several disciplines/classes) was actually how horribly important tuning was. I stuffed a LOT of regattas by thinking the athletic side was all-important.

Not to say that Graemef is right about dinghy regattas being a spending contest, or dinghy gear being from the dark ages, as far as I can see. They seem to be very, very highly developed but for very different things. The fact that dinghies sail in shiftier and lighter conditions changes just about everything.


Edited by CT249