New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Hardest nationals to win?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Hardest nationals to win?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910 13>
Author
I luv Wight View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 628
Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hardest nationals to win?
    Posted: 21 Jul 06 at 9:33pm
As winner of 5 of the last 6 Cherub nationals, I would say that for me, it has been quite easy to win.
2005 - 7 firsts of 7, in 2004 - 9 firsts of 9. - and mostly by 2-3 minutes clear.

However for the rest of the fleet, that means that it was almost impossible to win!

( and on a related rant re the foiling cherub article in Y&Y -
pipped - definition - defeated at the last moment

Quote " Ben/Daryl pipped into 2nd place by Andy P"
Dream on Daryl.

Andy's results ... seven firsts of seven.
Ben/Daryl's results ... a solitary first, + an assortment of 2nds, 3rds etc
more like complete domination of the whole fleet by Andy P and Tom G. )

what does Tom think about how easy it was?

In development classes, it's not just the sailing that counts - it makes it easy if your boat is faster. - which comes from careful consideration of design and construction.

It is possible to buy a ready to win Cherub, but at ~£13k, there aren't many ( any ) customers.

The reasons why I might be the champ -

Immense skill ( obviously )
lots of practice
The best boat
a bit of luck.

The boat bit is important here
My boat is the lightest all-up, and also carries the heaviest correctors ( and some new boats are significantly overweight )
The boat and rig is tuned for the average windspeed ie 10-15kts. Early planing in 10kts wind gives a massive advantage.
The crew weight is suited to the boat.
Lots of practice - this is my 32nd year of cherub sailing, so i must have many hours of sailing time.
It's much easier sailing in clear wind at the front, and luck just happens when you're ahead.

But now I've sold the boat!

So it won't be easy at all to win this year.

I hope the new owners will get to grips with it, but i am confident they will have a good chance of continuing the wiining streak.


Other classes ?

I did a breakthrough design int moth Axeman , and finished 3rd in my second year mothing ( which was good for a noob ) - but the design got 'borrowed', so it took a while - ~ 10 years - to get back near the front, but only got to runner up before i got too old!

I had an invisible first in the pico nationals ( sailing my son's boat )

Int Canoe ... coming soon.


new avatar ... IC in red!

Edited by I luv Wight
Back to Top
Alan F View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 04 Apr 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4
Post Options Post Options   Quote Alan F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 06 at 1:12pm

Steve Cockerill is RS300 National Champion, Blaze National Champion, UK Laser Masters National Champion (Std rig), Laser Masters Worlds 2nd Apprentice (Radial rig), Laser Radial National Champion.

In the 2005 Merlin Rockets at Hayling Island, he came 15th Overall, winning best new comer (best result a 6th overall). Out of 76 boats.

Come to Tenby 5th August and give it a go, see how competitive the Merlins are.

http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/

 Infact I'm looking for a crew, Private Message me if interested. (Brand New Merlin, would be pleased to get 40th out of 80.)

Back to Top
Alan F View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 04 Apr 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4
Post Options Post Options   Quote Alan F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 06 at 1:29pm

p.s.

For the last 3 years I have been crewing my daughter, who can't sail this year, hence my modest expectations as a helm - however

any hot shots, who would like to try and do better than 15th and get best newcommer, if you have won the nationals in another class or nearly, and want helm and to borrow me as crew and my boat (March 2006, latest modifications, same as 2005 nat champ & 2006 Salcombe week winners boat), let me know.

Back to Top
tgruitt View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2479
Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 06 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by I luv Wight

As winner of 5 of the last 6 Cherub nationals, I would say that for me, it has been quite easy to win.
2005 - 7 firsts of 7, in 2004 - 9 firsts of 9. - and mostly by 2-3 minutes clear.

However for the rest of the fleet, that means that it was almost impossible to win!

( and on a related rant re the foiling cherub article in Y&Y -
pipped - definition - defeated at the last moment

Quote " Ben/Daryl pipped into 2nd place by Andy P"
Dream on Daryl.

Andy's results ... seven firsts of seven.
Ben/Daryl's results ... a solitary first, + an assortment of 2nds, 3rds etc
more like complete domination of the whole fleet by Andy P and Tom G. )

what does Tom think about how easy it was?

In development classes, it's not just the sailing that counts - it makes it easy if your boat is faster. - which comes from careful consideration of design and construction.

It is possible to buy a ready to win Cherub, but at ~£13k, there aren't many ( any ) customers.

The reasons why I might be the champ -

Immense skill ( obviously )
lots of practice
The best boat
a bit of luck.

The boat bit is important here
My boat is the lightest all-up, and also carries the heaviest correctors ( and some new boats are significantly overweight )
The boat and rig is tuned for the average windspeed ie 10-15kts. Early planing in 10kts wind gives a massive advantage.
The crew weight is suited to the boat.
Lots of practice - this is my 32nd year of cherub sailing, so i must have many hours of sailing time.
It's much easier sailing in clear wind at the front, and luck just happens when you're ahead.

But now I've sold the boat!

So it won't be easy at all to win this year.

I hope the new owners will get to grips with it, but i am confident they will have a good chance of continuing the wiining streak.


Other classes ?

I did a breakthrough design int moth Axeman , and finished 3rd in my second year mothing ( which was good for a noob ) - but the design got 'borrowed', so it took a while - ~ 10 years - to get back near the front, but only got to runner up before i got too old!

I had an invisible first in the pico nationals ( sailing my son's boat )

Int Canoe ... coming soon.


new avatar ... IC in red!


Well i had only been sailing cherubs for a few months before the Nationals so i found the boat fairly hard to sail because of still learning, but sailing with andy p was great, everything jus seemed to be sailed well and the boat just seem to be going to much faster towards any mark than anyone else, even though he kept complaining im too heavy! I would say to win with nats with Andy P = easy, with anyone else it might be a lot harder!
Needs to sail more...
Back to Top
CT249 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 08 Jul 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 399
Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 06 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by Alan F

Steve Cockerill is RS300 National Champion, Blaze National Champion, UK Laser Masters National Champion (Std rig), Laser Masters Worlds 2nd Apprentice (Radial rig), Laser Radial National Champion.

In the 2005 Merlin Rockets at Hayling Island, he came 15th Overall, winning best new comer (best result a 6th overall). Out of 76 boats.

Come to Tenby 5th August and give it a go, see how competitive the Merlins are.

http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/

 Infact I'm looking for a crew, Private Message me if interested. (Brand New Merlin, would be pleased to get 40th out of 80.)



Many previous examples show that a Laser sailor of Steve's ability or  better, a triple World Fireball champ, or someone of that calibre would finish in almost exactly the same position (as a % of the fleet) in our Tasar State titles as Steve did in the MRs. Does that mean that the Tasar here is more competitive than Lasers and 'Balls, and as competitive as the MR's biggest regatta? Hell no! It's just a different boat.

A former world Soling and J/24 champ said he'd spend 3 years getting to club level in Lasers. Does that mean that the level at that ordinary club's Laser fleet was more competitive than the entire world's Soling and J/24 fleets? Hell no! It's just a different boat!

The World A Class champ did the Radial states and got 5th last. Does that mean that all but 4 of the Laser Radial fleet are better sailors than all the A Class sailors? Hell no! It's just a different boat!

If I put most Laser sailors of Steve's (great) ability into some sailing classes/disciplines I know, I can guarantee very few would get in the top 20% in their first regatta, like Steve did in Merlins. They probably wouldn't make the second mark. Does that prove that these classes or disciplines are more competitive than Merlins? Hell no! They're just different.

In fact I'd bet Ainslie, Robertson, Connor and Elvstrom at his peak wouldn't actually get through the competition in some of these disciplines or classes, and may well break his or her body, mast and sail.

Does that mean that the classes or disciplines that would punish Ainslie et al is more competitive than the Finns, Lasers, Stars, Europes or America's Cup????
Or does it just mean that some kit is easier to adapt to than others?

Out of interest, how did the top Merliner go in his first Laser nationals?


Edited by CT249
Back to Top
I luv Wight View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 628
Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 06 at 11:17pm
Originally posted by tgruitt




... and the boat just seem to be going to much faster towards any mark than anyone else,


Well that certainly helps!
Back to Top
Jon Emmett View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 988
Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 06 at 1:35am
I quite agree with CT249. All the classes Steve has dominated have been singled handed. For Steve to be able to perform as well in a double handed class he would require a crew who is a good a sailor as he is...
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048
Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 06 at 8:43am
Then again there are some people who sail double handed but swap crews regularly and still stay up at the front.

Dave Wade is one example, he has been Scorp national champ a few times recently with various crews and has always done relatively well at the Fireball nats (don't think he has actually won them though, I could be wrong).

Paul
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
Jon Emmett View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 988
Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 06 at 4:17pm
I think the higher performance the boat the more vital the crews role is... You are never going to win the 49er Worlds with a scratch crew!!!  (In fact you probably shouldn't even bother turning up...)

Edited by Jon Emmett
Back to Top
Soggy Doggie View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 06 Jul 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 24
Post Options Post Options   Quote Soggy Doggie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 06 at 11:03pm
I'd go for the Omega class. Nobody would want to win a championship in this!
A Cat is for life, not just for christmas.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910 13>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy