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    Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 9:13am

Originally posted by Paul B

Originally posted by Guest#260


Actually I think launching with a kick up rudder is harder than a dagger rudder.


Well you would say that wouldn't you Rick!!!

It wouldn't acutally bother me either way which rudder system a boat had, but it's depth might be more of an issue.  The 700 rudder is straight off the 200, so is quite small.  Even so I go to great lengths to ensure it doesn't budge an inch once down (use of Herzog rope and lots of wing nut tension), and conseuqently I think if I ran aground at any speed, it would do a fair amount of damage to blade, hull or both.

Ultimately, it's hardly a decision making factor in a boat....

Given the choice I'd choose a fixed rudder, then a dagger and last on the list a lifting rudder. Unless I sailed in a location where I am likley to run aground at sted then lifting is top of the list.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 9:40am
OK.
Without doubt the best and fastest all round any condition single hander,
a Racing Sailboard, (had I used one Round Sheppey I would have won and
probably beaten the cat to the Island record, no question.)is getting to
physical for me these days, hence my initial 'retirement' to a Musto Skiff.

Now I may be getting on a bit and not firing on all cyclinders, but a
Laser?
Sailings equivalent to the mobility scooter, nah not just yet thanks.

Primarily I enjoy sailing the Alto and have the expense of a new one
coming up, but my man doesn't like sailing in the winter, and I need the
practice, so I want something that behaves like my Alto, i.e. uses angles
downwind and a kite.

I was on the verge of the Vario, but have been put off by the bad press,
knowing my luck, I'd get TT's two part hulk re glued.

A blaze has put in an appearance and not lasted long at the club of
dreams as had the 300 and I note along with the two contenders we now
boast, they only go out in fair weather to enjoy their period in irons.

So there is once more, nothing that fits my particular bill as a buy it and
sail it option.

It doesn't matter if you have sailed both rudder systems, unless you've
sailed off our beach, it's pointless talking about it, just accept that over
the years lots of boats that evolved to sea and coastal use went down the
path of retracting centreboard and kick up rudder. Modern Skiffyness put
paid to all that and sailboats co incidently began dissappearing from the
coastal clubs, co incidence or not?

Edited by G.R.F.
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Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Peters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 10:04am

Agree with several of the points made about what would be needed in a new boat..

Upwind performance not far off a 300 - around the track sub 100 PY - race fireballs / 400s etc respectably - jim points out the issues of going faster, really narrow on the w/l and loads of leverage: The 300 was really a 14ft magnum 5 - and I would think (although it sounds good to me!) a kite on a 300 style boat might be step too far for any sensible sized market!!

Proper high quality racer, probably epoxy, centreboard and lifting rudder. Not too out and out skiffy - wants to be a delight in the light and shifty - like the 300. Mainsheet well forward.

At least shrouds and spreaders for downwind, but emulate the upwind look of the 300 - or mabe a lowish forestay for some rig control.

Leverage means rubular wings or moulded wings (think EPS, but pretty)- the latter would be really comfortable, but the B14 and Blaze use tubes - are these comfortable enough?

70-95kg sailors - plenty of lightweights boats and Finn, Phantom, Blaze100 above that.

Personally I prefer performance equalisation of some sort - wings could slide - or you could have differing size sails - or Iso style detachable wings - 2 groups - the 600 made that work?

Above all, has to look great - bit of boat park pride always sends you home with a warm feeling!

going back to Ians original post - I do know that Luca Devoti is developing a new singlehander - not seen a piccy, but I'm sure it will be in the public domain soon.

Equally it seems there is an appetite for a boat along these lines - I certainly thought so after going down most of a (very wild) run sitting on the wing of my 700 the other day! Mind you not going to hang up my harness any time soon.

 

 
Nick


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Posts: 290 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Inland sea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 10:17am

Interesting post Nick ... is this as you personaly saying "there is an appetite" or you as director of LDC?

Are we getting a scoop in that you are thinking about filling this gap in the market?
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Posts: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Peters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 11:02am

Always been interested personally - for years while tolley-dollying for the kids I'd jump in the 700 - make a muppet of myself and think I need toestraps and to stay on the side! But the downsides to most hiking singlehanders is pace upwind.

Sorry, not meaning to slyly give a "scoop" from RS. We have several times looked at a boat like this - but its a very big step do a new boat these days. Always interested in opinion from this forum - and all keen sailors - it all helps to mould future plans.

 
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 11:11am

Originally posted by G.R.F.

...unless you've sailed off our beach, it's pointless talking about it...

I have sailed off your beach and a number of other steep nasty beaches, there is not doubt it's not a very user friendly place to launch and I admit I'd think twice about launching my MPS off that beach in some of the more unpleasant weather ... I'd get my Laser out on such days; probably with the Radial rig is it was very windy.

Just because some craft are not as suitable for you beach dosn't make them design flawed; it just means they are less suitable for your launching area than perhaps other designs.
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Posts: 3169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 11:20am
Come on Nick, get to that drawing board and sort us all out, i would love to sail something that ticked all those boxes!! 
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Posts: 790 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 11:33am

This talk of a single handed hiking boat with kite has got me thinking again.

There appears to be quite a few manufacturers who seem interested, or have at least identified a potential gap in the market. Rather than making rival products, which reduce potential fleet numbers (e.g. ISO v L4000, MPS v 700), wouldn't it be great if they got together and agreed a general set of parameters for a new class? Lets say 4m long, 1m waterline beam, 1.8m max beam, hull weight 60kg, sail area 8sqm (and 8sqm kite), no carbon in the hull or foils, RRP £7k, built from female moulds. The numbers are made up of the top of my head, but you get the gist.

That way, each manufacturer could develop a boat, but it would race within a class, rather than just be a seperate SMOD. I suppose the nearest model to what I'm imagining is the Formula 18 cats. In my opinion the biggest advantages SMODs have is not the (fallacy of a) level playing field, but the ease of purchase and ownership they offer and the fact that they can sacrifice some performance for ease of use. The downsides of a SMOD include the fact that they outdate and can be lacking in refinement. Making updates to a SMOD is a difficult and sometimes unpopular process.

So, my thinking is that each manufacturer could launch a SMOD that fits within the basic rules. The sailor would buy their preferred boat and could not then alter it - much like a SMOD. Person A might buy the Cirrus design, person B the RS one and person C the Devoti design. Every two years, on the 1st March (just in time for the Dinghy Show) the manufacturers could release new designs, in the hope of geetting back to the front of the fleet.

This would allow the sailors to keep sailing a class that evolves with technology and would allow the manufacturers to keep refreshing their product range - a win/win situation. It would encourage class stalwarts to buy new boats regularly and provide a good source of second hand boats.

Could such an idea be workable?



Edited by Chew my RS
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Posts: 1105 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 11:51am

That sounds a great idea, the Y&Y forum singlehander. 

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