Devotti Single Hander |
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Chew my RS
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Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790 |
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Topic: Devotti Single HanderPosted: 17 Nov 08 at 1:25pm |
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Maybe take the jib off of this, move the forestay closer to the mast, perhaps reduce the size of the kite a little and give the hull small wings: |
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http://www.sailns14.org - The ultimate family raceboat now available in the UK
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Chew my RS
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Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790 |
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Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 1:21pm |
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Some quicks thoughts: The Blaze with kite is pretty close to what I was describing, although retro-fitting a kite system is never going to be as good as a purpose designed arrangement. Also, the Blaze is already notorioulsy quick on a reach, so how much difference will the kite make. Ideally, I would change the mainsail to be more optimised for upwind work, and leave the kite to get you the downwind performance. See the Topcat for a kickup dagger rudder. |
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http://www.sailns14.org - The ultimate family raceboat now available in the UK
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hollandsd
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Joined: 12 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 853 |
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Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 1:17pm |
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the 700 has a kick up rudder and thats what im looking at getting next year. easier to launch and recover than the musto
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Laser 184084
Tasar 3501 RS600 698 RS600 782 |
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G.R.F.
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Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 12:54pm |
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There were no MPS's in the round Sheppey ask yourself why not when
Whitstable is just down the coast. I will not ride anything, board, boat without a retracting centreboard for lots and lots of reasons. I love the visual appeal of the MPS and joking aside I really like a lot of the guys over at Whitstable who evangelise them. If I lived there and sailed from that club maybe I'd give one another try, but I dont and too often I've been in the company of someone off the water with a snapped mast head. Nor do lots of others in South Coast locations or Lakes with shallows, or tidal rivers. Its why the whole Assym Skiff thing stalled. It's all very well for some Aussie Guru to crack on about not needing a retracting CB when all they do is potter about in Sydney Harbour. It's why both the RS500, and Alto attracted me. Finally way better sailors than me were forced to give up the MPS and even now Force 4-5 is it's very top end, even the Whitstable boys would baulk at sailing from Hythe, and we enjoy it a bit if the winds over 20 knots, maybe because we're windsurfers, but talk to an old guard five oh sailor and they'll tell you 20 knots and above is where the fun really starts. An MPS with a retracting CB and kick up Tiller might be a whole different ball game, but as I'm sure they'll be quick to point out, that wouldn't be an MPS. |
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Merlinboy
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Joined: 03 Jul 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3169 |
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Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 12:44pm |
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Why not develop a kite kit and give the option?? Surely this is a low cost option and gives the Blaze as a brand a huge ammount of versatility?? It worked bloody well for the Vortex (An assy kit i think is about a grand) That means you could pick up an old blaze say £1500 - 2 buy an assy kit £1000 and have a vareo alternative that actually does up wind? or am i talking garbage again??
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Inland sea
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Joined: 19 Jul 07 Location: Rugby Online Status: Offline Posts: 290 |
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Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 10:59am |
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If your going for a hiking Una sailed boat GRF having tried most Try one you may well be surprsed |
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blaze720
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Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 10:58am |
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Paul etc The rights and tooling are owned by Cirrus but we work very closely with the CA who are totally independent. The ultimate design rights are owned by others but we now have an agreement in place to purchase them. The Blaze has a very successful niche of its own and sales are still expanding (16 already delivered and 3 more in production since March) but the CA is rightly cautious about changing a successful formula (if it aint broke don't 'repair' it !) .... we agree with them btw. The changes we have made to date are to do with refinement under CA guidance and both the CA and Cirrus have been careful to ensure that 'new' boats do not totally outclass early ones - it is still identical hulls, foils, spars, sails - you really can buy an old Blaze, give it loads of tlc and maybe a new sail and get right up there. Cirrus are however investigating derivatives particularly for sales overseas. As is widely known we are developing a 'big guys' version that will have a rather innovative rig on it but use 'all Blaze' below the boom - if launched in the UK it will be aimed exclusively at larger helms and will have the power for them. This will feature a taller, rotational mast and the current favorite is an imported Ozzi 'wing section' that is overrotated with a larger fat-head sail. This will be stepped on the boat in the next two weeks and a first development sail will follow very quickly. In other words we are going for high efficiency as well as a larger sailplan - I have raced both boards and Tasars in the past and am totally convinced that improved sail shape whether via camber inducers or over-rotation of the right section is an under-exploited area for general dinghy use. Anyway - Spinnakers .... Yes these have been tried on the basic boat. They work very well but yes the 3000 one is a tad on the ambitious side - but we have some better photos of that one !! The question is not whether it can be done but if there is a real market for it beyond a small band of forumites - same as any new idea here. I really like the Musto skiff myself in this part of the market and think it is the best of what it does - and there are plenty of other similar classes out there already as well. A Blaze spinnaker variant would not be in the same area of the market but would of course be fun to develop and to race but we are not sure there is sufficient potential in the UK for it as a commercial proposition. A '100' variant on the other hand is aiming at a different, and for us, new market and potential new group of owners - and so might be the right platform at some point .... in the future. (and we do not give too too much away in forums until ready !). One step at a time for now - many a builder has rushed to market far too quickly and perhaps a few have lived to regret it in the past 20 years. Blaze720 (aka Cirrus Raceboats) GRF - Why not give the MPS another go ? Tricky.... perhaps but it would seem to fit your broad requirements pretty well and as with everything time in the boat is the key. ... or perhaps something like small high performance cat with spinni - Shadow (?). You are welcome to try a Blaze but I'm not sure it is what you are after.
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G.R.F.
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Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 10:26am |
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Well if we'd listened to "The Class" sailboards would never have had
footstraps fitted. They listened to the Mistral class about the introduction of the Hybrid Prodigy, they rejected it, now the Pryde RSX is the Olympic board and no- one sails Mistral anymore. Having experienced first hand the difficulties involved in a beach unfriendly design like the MPS, yet still yearning for the thrill and challenge single handing a spinnaker driven boat, it seems like a commercial no brainer to me. I'd also be inclined to put a wire option, seems to me an easy way onto the wire with those racks for lightweights to get out that little bit further if the breeze permits. I fancy one anyway, I just need to ask our local Blaze jockey why he dumped it in favor of a contender, which he's been out in all of twice this season. I seem to recall he said he found it tricky, but then he's from oop North they find everything tricky
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Inland sea
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Joined: 19 Jul 07 Location: Rugby Online Status: Offline Posts: 290 |
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Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 10:12am |
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Blaze 720 sorry I'm confused as to why you have posted the Asymmetric Blaze picture? So has the time come? Will we see a Blaze Asym? Only Blaze 720 can answer that ... ? This boat has been knocking around for a number of yars with the assy 'modification'. It was discussed extensively at a couple of AGMs and pretty much unanimously rejected by the class. The resoning is that the boat is accessible to pretty much anyone, it is easy to sail but very hard to master and responds well to a lot of time in the boat. It was felt that adding an assymetric to the boat would put it out of reach of most of the current ownership (which is growing nicely). This does not preclude people who wish to play though. In fairness though Jeffers this was the only boat I have heard of that had the asym fitted properly. Would it not be wise to revisit it now the hull is epoxy? May be a smaller Kite? It certainly wouldn't cost much to add a 'Kite pack' that would be attainable by the current membership. IMHO I think a trick really is being missed by the Blaze as other boats that have converted are not the best. IC :- from those that I have spoken too 'On a club course they are dangerous as you can not see to leward from the sliding seat.' In translation what was meant by this statement was that you can not run up and down the side if the boat to change your viewing angle as you can with a trapeze boat. Vortex :- Has a habit of nose diving (please correct me if I am wrong) but certainly the complication of a trapeze. Vareo :- Damn hard work upwind but a real blast downhill Are there any other active classes out there? An asymmetric Blaze would not only be fun uphill and down but is a simple stable hiking platform to work from learn with. And how would it not benefit in the same way with rewarding time in the boat. Surely Upwind technique would remain with the added new tactical gains and losses to be made finding the shifts and pressure downwind. Hey it could even be put up for the Olympic heavyweight class in the future |
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jeffers
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Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 9:48am |
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This boat has been knocking around for a number of yars with the assy 'modification'. It was discussed extensively at a couple of AGMs and pretty much unanimously rejected by the class. The resoning is that the boat is accessible to pretty much anyone, it is easy to sail but very hard to master and responds well to a lot of time in the boat. It was felt that adding an assymetric to the boat would put it out of reach of most of the current ownership (which is growing nicely). This does not preclude people who wish to play though. For those who are a bit on the large side they are developing the 'Blaze 100' (name to be decided) which has a large sail and is designed with people who are 100 KGs + in mind. It will be primarily aimed at the US markets but there have been murmerings over here of a lot of interest so it may get launched here too. Blaze 720 being the builder (with Rondar making the hulls) is able to comment more on this. I believe the class owns the moulds (having bought them from Topper when they stopped making GRP boats) but the rights are still owned by someone else. |
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Paul
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