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Important announcement from the Tornados

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    Posted: 24 Oct 08 at 9:25am
But Chris, what if two competing sailmakers just so happen to be of near equal skill? 
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 08 at 10:13am
If the sailmakers and sailors were of equal skill, then it would be a close
fight...... unless one sailor spent more money developing more sails,
which (according to every sailmaker I know) results in a faster boat.

Developing sails, hulls, spars, is all fascinating stuff and arguably a great
test of the sailor (although I don't understand why being able to develop
the sails within a tight ruleset is seen as so important by some who
people ignore hull development or wider rulesets) but surely you can't
say that all the time, effort and cash that goes into making one sail faster
than the other does NOT affect results.

Certainly all the sailmakers keep telling us that it does!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 08 at 10:25am
Originally posted by Chris 249

unless one sailor spent more money developing more sails, which (according to every sailmaker I know) results in a faster boat.


In the UK that's what we call a Mandy Rice-Davies statement... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandy_Rice-Davies#cite_note-4

Ater all, unless you do really serious amounts of two boat tuning, who knows which is faster anyway?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 08 at 10:46am

Chris, I just wanted to put the point across that No matter what the development, I'm struggling to think of a single example (in dinghy sailing) whereby someone won through putting in LESS time and have less experience but had far better developed equipment.  I don't for a second think that development doesn't make a difference, because it does but as far as I know, the best sailor always wins. 

If cutting the cost to the sailors and restricting the arms race development cost is the issue, then there's a far simpler option.  Put in price caps.  E.g. Sails cannot cost more than £xxxx, The mast cannot cost more than £xxxx. 
Surely that would be more effective than restricting the class to one hull builder, sail maker and so on.  I realise this would be an extreme possibility but if more classes were to smod themselves, the potential is to end up with not much of an industy left at all. 
I realise it's not an olympic or even a true international class but the GP14 has sail price caps in place and it works.  The sailors are happy and the sailmakers are happy. 

Doug

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 08 at 11:09am
Doug

Whilst agree with your general thoughts..this thread is specific to the T and it hopefully regaining its ightful place as an olympic class. Therefore the class has listened to the problem of expense by ISAF and MNAs, Their viewpoint is that Olympic classes should be SMOD where possible, this they think will lower perceived costs and allow smaller nations to compete and with good platforms, as has been said in several previous threads, the platforms are capable of more than 1 campaign, this really left the sail development as an expense and with that in mind the class has reacted in a proactive way and put forward a suggestion which with good luck will result in a multihull regaining its place in the Olympics, and with multi...I personnaly hope Tornado.

It is my personnal understanding that the IOC would where possible like all olympic classes to be SMOD, ie equipment supplied


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 08 at 1:36pm

Thanks Stuart, a good answer to my apprehensions of the move. 

I do wonder if ISAF are being somewhat unfair by saying the Tornado is too expensive when the likes of the star and Yngling are in there.  Not what you might want to hear but could it be possible that they've made their minds up for good and they're just going to throw excuse after excuse at the cat world?  A bit of a far fetched conspiracy theory but as I've just mentioned, the star and yngling class aren't exactly cheap boats. 

 

Doug

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 08 at 4:37pm

Originally posted by Stuart O


It is my personnal understanding that the IOC would where possible like all olympic classes to be SMOD, ie equipment supplied

Do you really mean supplied?

That's going to make the sailing event very expensive for the organising nation if they have to supply perhaps 200 - 300 boats/boards.

The host nations don't supply the bikes to cyclists or boats to rowers.

I am sure they just want to see the playingfield as level as possible.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 08 at 5:45pm
Yes Rick...from what I have heard through various sorces I do mean supplied equipment.....with probably the builders taking the costs.

Being realistic for 2012 it could just mean 16 more boats with more to follow, based on current equipment used


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 08 at 7:03pm

Originally posted by Stuart O

Yes Rick...from what I have heard through various sorces I do mean supplied equipment.....with probably the builders taking the costs.

Being realistic for 2012 it could just mean 16 more boats with more to follow, based on current equipment used

That is an interesting development; I suspect builders would struggle to carry that cost .... I know they can sell the boats on but not at full price.

What about classes were there are multiple builders?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 08 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by Stuart O

Yes Rick...from what I have heard through various sorces I do mean supplied equipment.....with probably the builders taking the costs.

Being realistic for 2012 it could just mean 16 more boats with more to follow, based on current equipment used

That is an interesting development; I suspect builders would struggle to carry that cost .... I know they can sell the boats on but not at full price.

What about classes were there are multiple builders?

Welcome to their logic; Perhaps these classes days are numbered too!

Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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