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Sensible boats?

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CT249 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 12:20am
It's a very good point to raise; it seems that some people feel that they "should" be sailing skiffy types because they are what is painted as the desirable sort of boat, but really for many it's a major challenge. While a major challenge may be great for some of us, for other people - especially some with high-powered jobs, kids, mortgages, other interests, other challenges - the weekend is a time to relax, not a time to choose between being totally stressed by wipeouts and breaking gear, or sitting on shore while working up to a breeze. I love strong wind sailing, but won't sail a skiff because of the costs associated with sailing them in big breezes; an old Int Canoe is fun enough and it breaks enough!

The low numbers sailing skiff-type boats and modern Moths shows that while they are great boats, they are not all that appealing to the average sailor for reasons like MM raised, and surely we should recognise that.

Maybe it would be great to lift the image of the traditional dinghy - the boat that is designed to sail well in light winds and in strong, while being seaworthy in the hands of the average good sailor. They may not be as fast in terms of speed-for-length, but in terms of speed-for-dollar and speed-for-sail area they are often more efficient than the skiffy boats.

PS - why is a Phantom hard to sail in a breeze? They've got a big rig but they're a big boy's boat aren't they???? Is it a handling thing brought about by the difference between the very Veed bow and the flattish stern?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote swiftsolo.org Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 1:57am

I learned my sailing skills in the UK on the Norfolk Broads and got pretty good at sailing the Laser there and around the country on the circuit. Strong wind days were not that frequent and I really enjoyed them when they happened.

I took the sport up again here in Australia after a 20 year break. I had bought the 59er and what a shock I got. Nearly every afternoon the wind in Summer is 15 knots plus!! I had a lot of swimming lessons. The best bit of advice I had while I was learning was to have a three swim rule. If you have 3 swims - go home. If you keep trying for much longer than this you don't learn anyway as you are tired and the reflexes have slowed down. It took us a while to finish a race. Then we finished a race - last. Finally we were racing and competing in up to 20 knots. The next barrier is 20 - 25 knots.

All of the above is ok if you are prepared to persist. Otherwise the more stable boats provide a less intimidating way to get out on the water without too many worries. At the end of the day just being out on the water is pretty good anyway. I'm just an adrenalin junkie

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote TeamFugu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 2:45am
If you never push the envelope, you never find you limit. Just about the time I think I've found it, I find if I practice a little more, I can go a little farther.
Live large, love life, and sail fast.
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CT249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 3:29am
Sure, but aren't there are different limits? There's the limit of what sort of boat you can struggle around the course in, the limit of what sort of boat and conditions you can get around the course in some short of shape, the limit in the boat and conditions you can get around the course sailing right on the edge of maximum performance, the limit you of the boat you enjoy, the limit in the class when you really feel you have mastered the  sailing, the limit that relaxes you to get you tuned up for Monday morning.

Surely all or most of these limits are equally valuable and you can reach many of them on a slow boat as easily as you can on a difficult boat?

If find I'm more on my limits when I'm sailing the Laser Radial in a big breeze than when I'm sailing the International Canoe (not the hardest piece of my own kit) in the same conditions, because on the Laser, I am much more likely to have a whole fleet pushing me, and I don't have the comfort of saying it's my boat's fault, or that the boat is so hard to sail that just surviving is a success.

I find the Radial more intimidating in some ways than the Canoe, because the level of competition is vastly higher in the Radial and I don't have the psychic crutch of having an old and uncompetitive boat to lean on when I get beaten.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to illustrate a slightly different slant on pushing the limits.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 9:45am
Being on the limit of your ability to sail and your ability to win are very different things!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 9:50am

As ever, I was hoping for a simple answer on this question, but of course life’s not like that.

A friend of mine used to sail Moths, then a Canoe, a Hurricane and an Iso (you know who you are!), but then decided to take it easy and bought an Albacore. Within months he found that his perception of difficult or worrying conditions had changed so that the doddle of an Albacore now started sprouting horns of its own. He’d got used to the extra stability, taken it for granted and then found there were still limits.

But I guess you’ll be testing the limits much more often and in less wind in some boats than others. If there’s a conclusion I can draw from the discussion so far, it is that if you’re not prepared to persist then don’t buy yourself a twin-wire skiffy thing, but if you possess dogged determination and are prepared to hang in there, give it a try.

The problem I’m still left with is that many people will feel they ought to be giving it a try and will initially believe they will persist but in fact won’t. The danger then is that they will have a sense of failure when stepping ‘back’ into a Fireball or Contender, and that they’ll regard those boats as second best, and maybe just give up.

I think we can all relate to NickA’s story about the Pico being as much fun as the Laser 2 in heaps of wind, the question is, how do we keep our self-respect when ‘trading down’ (already the wrong way of looking at it)? I guess it would help if we didn’t get up ourselves over the fact that we sail ‘quite a hairy sort of boat, actually’ (even thought it secretly scares the life out of us).

The fact is that every class has its appeal: I’ve a spreadsheet with over 150 classes on it, and each of them has something the others don’t have - whether you want it at present is another matter, but I think we need to get away from the heirachy thing that assumes the fast handicap are inevitably ‘better sailors’ than the Wayfarers etc., and take the pressure off ourselves.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 10:07am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

<FONT face=Arial> but I think we need to get away from the heirachy thing that assumes the fast handicap are inevitably ‘better sailors’ than the Wayfarers etc., and take the pressure off ourselves.



You're quite right here. Some boats require lots of boat handling skill (i.e everything from getting it arround the course to keeping it in the grove) (the 49er for example) wheras some boats require alot of tactical ability because even with superb boat handling and a superbly set up rig they still go at a similar speed and its all down to which direction the helm points it in (laser for example). Then there are classes where rig set up is seriously important to how the boat goes and a badly set up rig will make the boat impossible to sail (cant think of an example off the top of my head).

I think my point here is all boats require different skills and we (well most of us) dont have the skills and ability required to sail them all never mind win in them all. As long as people are comfortable in what they are sailing whether that means being challanged to get arround the course or struggling to win a tacking duel with 90 boats then they shouldnt be thinking they are in a second best boat and should just enjoy our wonderful sport!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Xpletive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 10:25am

It was ideal kite-blasting weather over the weekend.........even on bumpy water!

 



Edited by Xpletive
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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 12:49pm

When I first got into a Contender I couldn't understand how people in the class said you can sail it in anything but I finally get it. The problem now is that I think it is undercanvassed and want a bit more for the light stuff. So my limits are reversed ie. it's not fear when it's windy but lack of concentration when it's light that's the killer.

I even considered getting a Phantom for those light days even though I'm a few pies short of ideal weight - maybe it's those like me that struggle on windier days in Phantoms?



Edited by Matt Jackson
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 06 at 12:52pm
By the way, if someone had said it was a sensible boat when I first got into a Contender I doubt if I'd stayed in it... but I was younger then
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