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Bandits!

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ssailor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ssailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bandits!
    Posted: 26 Jun 06 at 10:21am
Because they are sh*te  and no way do they only way 60kg when your sailing one, the rigs made of cast iron I dont really think its a hull of only 60kg, its rotomoulded after all so shud be heavier!


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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 06 at 11:11am

Any difficult boat to sail (where some have mastered it) will always be a bit of a bandit. 

 

Consider the MPS for example – A joy to watch the like of Sten sailing one and you know it’s going quick, but the back of the fleet are swimming a lot.  Hence the handicap (by definition) will be based on the average of the good sailors vs bad (or learning) sailors.  So the harder the boat is to sail, the more people struggle, so the “average” performance (and so the Hcap as this is based on the average) gets slower.  Thus the good sailors have a nice number to sail off.  

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 06 at 11:51am
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Any difficult boat to sail (where some have mastered it) will always be a bit of a bandit. 

Consider the MPS for example – A joy to watch the like of Sten sailing one and you know it’s going quick, but the back of the fleet are swimming a lot.  Hence the handicap (by definition) will be based on the average of the good sailors vs bad (or learning) sailors.  So the harder the boat is to sail, the more people struggle, so the “average” performance (and so the Hcap as this is based on the average) gets slower.  Thus the good sailors have a nice number to sail off.  

The above is quite true - so if you can keep the boat upright anything a bit difficult will do - 49er, 14 etc ...

If your sailing standard is poor and you still wan't to win a HC race then you need a boat that develops faster than it's PY or has had a recent significan rule change.

But  - really seems to me HC racing is just for fun  - class racing is what you should care about.

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 06 at 12:23pm

Originally posted by boatshed

Topper Topaz Tres.   Fully battened main, asymmetric, trapeze and 60 kg hull.  All this and a PY of 1190 which makes it slower than a Firefly.  I just can't understand why I never see any ?

Because it is one of the most horrible boats ever created. The hull with all the extra junk on it weighs a LOT more than 60kg and bends like crazy. It is the most hated boat by sunsail staff since it takes 3 people to lift them anywhere.

Also for a trapeze, asy boat to have the same rudder fittings as the topper is stupid, they break in no time. The mast also has the wrong metal rivets in it resulting in mast breakages in F1-2.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 06 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

But  - really seems to me HC racing is just for fun  - class racing is what you should care about.

No! Race for your boat/class's sake, not your ego!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote tornado435 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 06 at 12:40pm

The biggest bandit on two hulls has got to be a spitfire!

Thats based on SCHRS which is purely measurement, guess what it was designed after the rule was created!

Got to support Scooby here, class racing is the only way you are going to be able to rate yourself on a level playing field. Handicap racing can be fun but it always allows you a get out clause.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 06 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by Guest#260

But  - really seems to me HC racing is just for fun  - class racing is what you should care about.

No! Race for your boat/class's sake, not your ego!



But class racing is where you learn the most and its much more fun on the race course.  Im sure you've seen my face of utter boredem and discontent as i round the windward mark with the rest of the fast fleet then say bye bye once they all put their kites up.....who am i to race with then??

Ps. Good result in the grand prix tony, thought you might have beaten ther vortex though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 06 at 1:25pm
I find it more interesting to contemplate why I've been beaten by another class than why I've been beaten by someone with more/less lard...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 06 at 2:08pm
British Moth or Comet in light airs are both bandits.

Phantom is definitely a bandit h'cap until the wind gets up then it falls away (which is probably why it is placed where it is).

As for the Topaz we have 2 at my local club, one is sail by a (very handy) ex 470 sailor. He does ok but I would not class that boat as a bandit at all!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 06 at 2:40pm

Going back to the Topaz Trez, when it first came out, we thought Great, 12' boat with 90sqft of sail, just like the Firefly, but with a spinnaker as well, so we went and tried one...the amount of power from the "white" sails is considerebly less than the Firefly, the hull is not only floppy but is more "cruising boat" shaped. Up wind, the firefly leaves it standing, and down wind you might stand a chance on a perfect asymmetric reach, but on a run you'll just be left criss crossing behind the Firefly's wake. Do many people race them on handicap, and make returns, or is it still Topper's recommended number?

British Moth and Comet may be good in the light stuff, but REALLY pay in the stronger winds, especially the Moth, which reaches max speed in about a 2, and after that is pushing a bigger and bigger bow wave!

Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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