Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
International Moth |
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7BOS ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 09 Aug 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6 |
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80Kg plus is a good weight, trust me. not much hiking needed upwind. How heavy was nige when he won the nationals? Point proved. 7BOS |
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fizzicist ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Aug 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 305 |
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The 300 had a tricky couple of years because LDC in their infinite wisdom sold as a boat that was really easy to sail and you didn't need to hike much. Which frankly, is a load of cobblers. It's demanding and you have to move your weight around a great deal. However, it would seem as though boats are finding their way into the hands of keen owners, the class association although small, is very friendly and very keen to push the class forwards. The best thing about the 300 though is the fact that it is great fun to sail and cheap. I paid £2000 for a two year old boat which is near new condition. |
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Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and
oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Now I like the RS300, and its a nice easy to sail club boat. But comparing it to an International Moth is like comparing a Ford Mondeo to a Ducati 900! Also sadly it looks as if the 300 is dying off. |
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fizzicist ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Aug 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 305 |
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Like Rob E says - get a 300. it's not as fast as a moth but it's cheap, bulletproof, testing to sail but has enough stability to actually be useable in really lightwinds, the handicap is quite favourable and they're a top laugh to sail. After ten years in Lasers, and having won a lot of club level series, the 300 has been a real wake up call - after 6 months in a 300 I have learned more than I did in the last 6 years of Laser sailing. It's a fantastic boat. Certainly has love it or hate it looks but it's a joy to sail. I'd recommend a test sail in one anytime. I'm sure most 300 sailors would gladly loan their boat for an hour or so. |
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Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and
oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. |
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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I had a long chat a while ago with the guy who makes sails for many of the top Aussie Moths (Rohan etc). He (Andy McDougall) was a former Moth worlds runner-up, a succesful windsurfer sailor, and a very succesful maker of sailboard sails. Andy reckons that he has used many ideas from windsurfer sails in Moths, and the two are now quite similar. The windsurfer style fits Moths well, because they are very easily driven and have no planing hump. Therefore, the low drag/low power windsurfer style sail works very well for Moths. It wouldn't work with something like a Cherub, which needs power and can accept extra drag to get it. So Moth sails are very different from Cherub sails and very similar to windsurfer sails. |
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Chris Noble ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 26 Nov 04 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 710 |
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the handicaps on the 1990 to late 90s boats is amazing for handicap racing also.
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Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine
FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
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BlueMouse ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 07 Dec 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4 |
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Here's a (definitely unofficial) moth class view: Boats - the newer pro built ones (Full Force, Fastacraft, Bloodaxe, Thorpe) are all-carbon and pretty much bullet proof. If you're so inclined you can sail them in 30 kts and they won't break. These designs are broadly similar and have been so for several years, so if you can get hold of one it will still be very competitive. On the other hand you can pick up an old ply moth for a few hundred quid - although wider if it's got an alloy mast and no T-foil on the rudder it will be harder to sail than a newer one. As JimC says you'll get handy with the epoxy if you try this route, but it's a cheap way to get started. Weight - 75kg is OK, some of the current UK regulars are around or more than this (no names, well at least for now...). You'd have trouble with the lightweights downwind in the light stuff but when there's wind you'd be quick. With moths though helm skill level matters much more than weight or boat design. Sailing them - OK it's harder than a 'normal' boat but it's by no means impossible. It's a bit like learning to sail a windsurfer - you need to start out in a steady F2 to learn how to balance it, and only then move on to more (and less!) wind. Most experienced sailors in a decent boat can reach back and forth first time out under these conditions without too many problems. Basically you need to get the feel of using much more sheeting and steering to keep the boat level rather than moving your weight. I've seen a fair few people have problems though when they get a moth, get really keen and go out every weekend whatever the weather. So they go out in a gusty F4-5, capsize 20 times and give up cos they think they can't do it. But no-one can do that when they start, you have to learn the reactions in easier weather. If you're reasonably fit, have some sense of balance and stick at it then you'll get there. Speed - so is it worth the effort of learning to sail one? Well...
The 300 is a good boat but our experience is the int. moth leaves it behind in F3+. On a reach the light weight (under 28kg all up) means it accelerates way faster than anything else on a gust or waves - it's faster downwind than an RS600 in these conditions. Upwind in F3-4 you're slightly slower than the 600 but not by much - the technique is to foot off and go for speed with as much windward heel as you can. Also once you can sail it in the light stuff, in a real drifter you reach a point where the moth will pick up on a tiny gust when everything else just sits there, so you can have fun beating RS800s etc. on the water. Almost makes up for the pain in your knees!
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Matt Jackson ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 Sep 04 Location: Darlington Online Status: Offline Posts: 962 |
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Isn't the sail the same as a Cherub main? That would make finding a reasonable second-hand one easier and stacks better than a winsurf sail - 'Horses for courses' and all that.
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Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36
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Blobby ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 May 04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 779 |
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As far as I recall an Aussie moth bought an off the shelf 8m2 windsurfer mast sail and wishbone and used that. I think the opinion was it was fast upwind and slower downwind than conventional rigs, but I could be wrong. I think the Aussie moth site had some pictures...
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