Fastest dinghy?

If I was you

Originally posted by Jack Sparrow    rubbish!

IIWY I would be a bit more careful of whom I accused of talking rubbish mate. Its just possible that if one doesn't check out the sources of someone's information that sometimes one might find they have done more research with better sources...

Edited by JimC

Ah, Ok....some other guys had been putting forward the idea that a small dinghy (ie Cherub) would be the fastest dinghy of all, and I got your comment mixed up with that. My mistake.

420s only lasting a season?? Cheez, back when I was a lad (a long time ago) we had a Roga 420 that had done two worlds before we got it, and it was still fast enough for my brother to get second in the Nationals (first Youth) and to win states against guys who were 3rd in 420 worlds, two time Moth world champs etc.

I think I was talking to the brother of the world 470 and 420 champ almost exactly a year back and he reckoned the 420 was lasting well.

We actually found the undercanvassed old girl would do the Cherubs in a big, big breeze, but as far as going as quick as an 18' skiff or 12.......no chance. Not a single, solitary, tiny chance in any practical conditions AFAIK.

If the "small dinghies are fastest" idea worked, perhaps the fastest of all would be an old Scow Moth - vastly lighter than a 405 or 420, dead flat, dead easy to sail, efficient rig, hull weight of about 25 kg, wings.  But the Scow Moth cannot beat a big skiff. Maybe a Contender - long and skinny, designed to perform in wind - would be fast. But I've never seen anything to indicate that a Contender can beat a big skiff; we are very competitive with Contenders in a Tasar and a Tasar (a good high-wind boat) cannot beat a big skiff in terms of top speed.

The 420 is almost certainly not as quick in a big. big breeze as the 11'  VJ, which is almost dead flat on the bottom, has twin hiking planks like a Canoe, a small low-aspect rig, a skinny hull, and is designed to go fast in a breeze. But the VJ doesn't beat skiffs.

The Skate is a 14' VJ, with an 11' long plank for the crew. Can you imagine the leverage he's got? The skipper also has a plank. But beating an 18? Dunno, the Skaters reckon they out-reach the I-14s and 16s, but neither 14 or 16 can beat an 18.

You'd get better power ratios in a Flying Ant,. probably (10'6" version of a Cherub) than a 420, but would a Flying Ant beat an 18???? I somewhat doubt it.

Have any of you who reckon a 420 could even look at an 18 ever sailed an 18? Do the rough calcs on the power to sail area ratio, which have already been posted here. The 18 has much more power. The 18's hull shape is designed to be efficient at much higher speed; that's one of the reasons they have chines (the chines are there largely to keep the boat tracking at extreme speeds). 420 hulls aren't.

18s and other skiffs are designed to lift entirely out of the water and land, without losing control. 420s aren't.

Skiffs are designed to go fast when heeled, which is inevitable in a big breeze. 420s aren't.

The Laser is faster than the 420 normally, the Radial is faster than the big rig Laser in a strong wind, but it's a joke to think that a Radial will out-speed an 18 in any conditions.

I'm not saying I'm sure the 18 will survive higher winds than the 420, but it will go much faster in 25 + knots than the 420 will go in 50.

There's a possible analogy with windsurfers. The Formula boards (fat, but only 8' long) have to stop racing in conditions when the longer raceboards (12' long) can still get around the course - because the short, fat idea doesn't always work.

But the windsurfer analogy isn't much good generally. Boards just feel different, they work differently. I've heard all the supposed reasons and I still disagree with most of them (and I have some very good support for my disagreement). But it's noticeable that windsurfer dynamics are generally very different from boat dynamics. Things that work on windsurfers don't work on boats, and vice versa.

I'm not knocking the 420, which is a good boat; but the fastest dinghy????


Edited by Chris 249

In 2002 i think, there was a topper traveller championship held at largs, the forecast was rough, but becasue it was the championship they were not going to call it off as easily, we were all told we didnt have to go out if we didnt feel up to the conditions, many didnt. As the start sequence neared 3 minutes the wether was already starting to become very very poor, with winds already in the upper 20 knots. However the race still went on and after the windward leg, a huge squal came through and the winds were recorded at a highest gust of 39 knots and averaging at around 35. Now you can imagine the site, it was carnage 40 odd boats mostly all upside down. Even one of the local "Calmac ferries was used to recover topper by lwoering both its stern and bow ramp and letting them wash in, totally destroying the rig, but the assistance was somewhat welcomed i think. Any way despite this 8 sailors still completed the race, once of which Campbel Davis (topper world champ) did not capsize once, the rest of us capsizing once or twice, the point being that you can sail even a topper in 35+ its just depends on your skill level and heavy weather experience, which in Scotland we get a good bit of. Yes ther were several bent rigs, i even bent my boom and upper section. but i still completed both laps. There no wind whatso ever the next day of course.