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New Development Classes

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laser47 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Development Classes
    Posted: 01 Mar 06 at 3:54pm
yup, it looked like a really nice boat
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Blobby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 06 at 8:29am
Originally posted by Chew my RS

I thought I'd bring this topic up again.  I haven't had a chance to do much thinking over the last couple of weeks, but the idea is still live and kicking.

I would prefer to allow only asymmetric kites, for a couple of reasons.  Firstly, I suspect a traditional spinnaker may actually be quicker on a boat of this size - especially on restricted waters.  However, I believe it is a reality of the modern world that most people would expect a new design to be asymmetric.  They are simpler to use and give the impression of being quick.  To be a commercial success therefore, asymmetrics are probably essential.  Secondly, setting a fair course is always tricky in mixed spinnaker fleets, and one section would always complain! 

I don't see this as a tinkerers class - there are already classes to cater for this aspect of the sport.  It is important for a mainstream class to have the backing of the large manufacturers, and this concept allows them to bring out new designs regularly, without fragmenting fleet sizes.  Heck, they could even share marketting costs!  Small, specialist builders are likely to be able to produce more radical designs which may prove faster (and adapt them more frequently), however I don't see this as being in the interests of the class.  If the big boys are discouraged, the class would likely flounder. 

I have therefore been toying with the idea of charging a design registration fee, payable to the class association.  Basically, if you want your design to be considered as part of the F4 class (or whatever its called) you pay a fairly substantial fee to register it (£2000ish?).  Conceivably, when a set number of the design have been sold a partial rebate could be returned.

This has a number of advantages:

a.  It effectively blocks one-off designs/builds and encourages mini fleets of each design

b.  The money raised is used to promote the class

c. It would encourage manufacturers to get it right first time, with thorough pre-production testing, as each update will cost them

d.  Will discourage too many design changes, ensuring existing designs remain competitive for longer

What do you think?

Funny - I would completely disagree with most of these ideas - it just starts to make it all too hard for everybody...

I wouldn't worry about rate of change of designs etc - not all new designs are automatically faster, most people will not try to design their own boat and even if they do so what?  More people are allowed to design boats than Phil Morrison!  If a one off is built that performs well there is nothing to stop the big boys buying a license to produce the design anyway if they felt threatened.  That way they get to build fast boats that they can sell into an existing class structure without the development cost.

Why charge a fee for new designs - the management of the class becomes a nightmare.  What constitutes a new design? Changing a mast? Adjusting the detail on a spreader fitting? Going from centre-main sheeting to off the boom with? Change in sail cut? Or just a minor tweak in the hull rocker line?  How does the class manage to use the money of registered new designs to promote itself when it might have to give the money back later?  Manufacturer's are not over keen on continually changing the fundamentals of their design because it costs money but why prevent them from fixing defects and improving the boat?  It has worked well enough for the Hobie Tiger.

I can see the in-class tension argument for assy vs. symmetric kite but why prevent people from trying it?  I don't think the MRX argument holds much water - this was an attempt at an OD that was competing directly with the Merlins and the RS400 without any financial muscle behind it.  Where this started was developing a Formula Rule to enable multiple manufacturer class competition which is a completely different situation.

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Isis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 06 at 9:16am
Im hearing whispers a new development class might be being launched at the boat show this weekend... anyone heard anything about this or am I just getting confuzed?
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Chew my RS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 06 at 9:57am

Thanks for the feedback Blobby, its good to get other's thoughts. It is surprising, when you really think about it, how many directions a new class could take!  Perhaps you're right though, the fee might discourage some designers.

I agree totally that the MRX is not a suitable comparison, exactly for the reasons you give. I also agree that determining when a new design is created is tricky, but perhaps if SMOD-like restrictions were applied to each design it could be possible.

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Blobby View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 06 at 10:41am

Originally posted by Isis

Im hearing whispers a new development class might be being launched at the boat show this weekend... anyone heard anything about this or am I just getting confuzed?

There is only so much hype you can generate about your 6ft skiff mate...

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tickel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tickel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 06 at 11:21am
I cant be bothered to plough through all these ideas but I would have thought that we have classes to cope with most peoples needs. If we do need a new development class how about this. 40 odd years ago I sailed model boats. The most succesfull class was and still is the Marblehead. The rules were simple, max 50" long and 800 square inches of sale with the jib 2/3 mast hight which was open. The kite was also open but had to attach no higher than the jib. This ,if translated into a dinghy formula would encourage subletey? and efficiency rather than power. My attitude may be influenced by recent purchase of a Tasar
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Porteous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 06 at 9:27pm

Good on you Tickle

One of Sailings best kept secrets, its a great boat and Nicole Kidman sails one !

Come and see us at the dinghy show with the new Aussie boat and Trannies( Mylar Sails )

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 06 at 9:16pm
On how many threads are we going to have to say that it is a different Nicole Kidman?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 06 at 4:32pm

i was happy to be an inocent bystander until i heard the idea of charging manufacturers for new designs. it doesnt seem to make sense, the development of this class would be slowed down quite considerably if each time a manufacturer had an idea they had to spend a 2000 odd pounds extra on developing it as well as the other testing they would do. also i think one offs would be good for the class because if they were rubbish then noone else would try it but if it was good it could be sold to a manufacturer so you the class continualy improved. it would not be the only source of development of course but it has the potential to provide development in bursts when the manufacturers were running out of ideas.

600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Javelin53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 06 at 9:00pm
anyone seen the 6 ft skiff thread
I hoped the threat would be enough!

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