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Chew my RS View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

"Scope for development" but I suspect not a "development class". It is many years since there was an Olympic development class. The problem is the budget. I'd be amazed if the Moth was selected. And I believe that strictly speaking, the Canoe is a canoe, not a sailboat, which might make things ticklish for the ISAF.

Good point about the Canoe.  I also agree that "Scope for development" doesn't equal "development class" but a SMOD doesn't fit the criteria.  That only leaves the slightly looser one designs like the Finn and the Solo, but there aren't many of these with international status.

You have to wonder if the ISAF/IOC really know what they want. Or perhaps the criteria were cleverly worded so that the Finn was the only viable option.

Personally I think it seems a bit silly to have 2 singlehanded classes anyway. The same people are suited to both. 
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NeilP View Drop Down
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Posts: 271 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 2:58pm

"Scope for development" means just that. Sails, rig, foils and hull must conform to the Class rules, but can be sourced from anyone, and where the rules include measurement tolerances, these are used to try to gain a speed advantage over the opposition. Until the SMOD came along, this was how the dinghy sailing world worked. Most of it still does, actually, despite all the SMOD propaganda.

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7250 View Drop Down
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Posts: 13 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 7250 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 3:02pm
Turnturtle

I'm wondering why can't the Finn represent the future of singlehanded sailing. Is all singlehanded sailing going to be in skiffs in the future? Are hiking singlehanders really dying as a type?

I haven't seen any evidence of this in numbers on the water. Actually, people continue to buy more brand new hiking singlehanders than brand new singlehanded skiffs in the face of a lot of evangelism for the latter. Far, far, far more.

I think this is because there's nothing inherently superior about the skiff compared with the hiking boat. Quicker maybe, but I make the point again about the A Class and the foiling Moth being a lot quicker still.

In fact if you're looking to the future I think there's a good argument that the skiff approach is being shown up even now as a failed experiment in generating boatspeed, losing out to the cats and now the foilers.

And certainly the skiff type could never be classified as the easiest to sail, the most tactical, the most popular, or the cheapest. So where is it going to end up as a type? On that basis the MPS would run a high risk of ending up as an Olympic class that reflected a type of sailing no one did anymore. Like the Mistral sailboard.

By contrast hiking singlehanders will likely always be around as a major type, no matter what occurs at the cutting edge of the fast development classes.

On that basis I think the far better bet for the future is to stick with hiking boats for the Olympic singlehanders, because they test sailing skills that will always reflect those of a significant part of the sailing world.

And the Finn is always going to be the pre-eminent hiking singlehander because it adapts new technology within the one design framework.

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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 3:13pm

Originally posted by Chew my RS

You have to wonder if the ISAF/IOC really know what they want. Or perhaps the criteria were cleverly worded so that the Finn was the only viable option.

You can safely assume they know exactly what they want. Beyond that, I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if either the Finn or the Star are dropped, I'll fall off my chair.
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NeilP View Drop Down
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Posts: 271 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 3:22pm

Stefan -

It'd do us all good to remember that ISAF selects the classes following criteria laid down by...ISAF. To ensure the criteria are fairly applied, the whole process is overseen by...ISAF.

The Star was dropped once, and for some Macchiavellian reason was re-instated. The interesting thing about that was that a certain Bavarian builder of Star-boats knew about the re-instatement almost before I knew about the dropping!

Neil

 
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Originally posted by Tornado_ALIVE

.

Originally posted by dinghysolutions

Sailing would be better off not being in the olympics at all.

It absolutley $hits me to tears every time I here this comment and makes me realise how ill informed, closed minded and just plain greedy some people are.......blah blah blah blah blahdidah..

All I want out of life right now is to witness tornado (thinks he is) alive tears to hear sombody elses reasonable point being made in a polite way without resorting to a string of insults which have no relationship with the point, or how it may or may not be ill founded.

Your attitude is perfect....... I think you should apply for a job on the IOC. After all, it makes us all proud to know that nobody even knows what dinghy racing is, and after more than a century in the games regular people still debate whether sailing is a sport (like darts and snooker). I don't think about this, because I'm just happy to know that having a handful of massively expensive professional sailors makes my sport at club level better, more competitive and encourages more people to 'come and have a go'..............yeahhhhhhhh

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Posts: 228 		Post Options Post Options   Quote allanorton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 4:18pm

Originally posted by turnturtle

solos, finns, lasers and phantoms do not offer the same visual appeal to a none-sailing television viewer as something a little more high-tech in appearance- the MPS with its extreme looking racks, kites and wires masks a relatively stable, attainable boat below the surface.  This, IMHO, makes the MPS the top of long list I would pick in favour of the Finn for the category described.

No one is saying appearences aren't deceptive; but fact is, MPS/49er/RS700 et al. offer better viewing potential on screen than a Finn.  If TV coverage is so important (which I believe it is for Olympics and any other global sporting event) then we should, as a sport, be putting forward a class which generates the appeal everyday consumers want and at the same point, event formats that can capitalise on a more thrilling viewing opportunity.

Non sailing viewers don't have any appreciation of racks, wires kites etc., also they don't have any appreciation of sail boats speeds.  They would find watching symetric spinaker boats easier to follow around an olympic course than they would an assymetirc gybing (even then, they would want to know why the spinakers aren't up all the time!).  The best boats for non sailing viewers to watch and understand are probably hiking, single sail, singlehanders, where they can seen the pain on the helms' faces, and equate that more effort means more speed.

Also, MeilP wrote-

I can't see a Manufacturer wanting to have it's brand spanking new class appropriated by the 5-ring circus, can you?

Do you remeber when the Laser 5000 came out it had little olympic ring type symbols on it?!
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 4:52pm
I have, once, observed the general public following dinghy racing from the shore. The key factors seemed to be (overhearing their conversation):-

It was a relatively small number of boats that were very readily distinguishable from each other so folk could follow "their" boats

There was drama in the form of capsizes and so on

The racing was very close to the observation point
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tack'ho View Drop Down
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Err. am I missing the point of the olympics? Aren't they supposed to be about finding the best athlete in a paticular sport? Whether the sport has TV appeal should be secondary and claiming any boat should be selected on these merits somewhat dillutes the olympic ideal, in my mind.  So which boats require the most skill and are consequently worthy of the Olympic slots?.....duck and run!
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Roland Butter View Drop Down
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Posts: 21 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Roland Butter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 5:27pm

Originally posted by tack'ho

Err. am I missing the point of the olympics? Aren't they supposed to be about finding the best athlete in a paticular sport? Whether the sport has TV appeal should be secondary and claiming any boat should be selected on these merits somewhat dillutes the olympic ideal, in my mind.  So which boats require the most skill and are consequently worthy of the Olympic slots?.....duck and run!

A very good point! Why should we care about sailing being a 'spectator sport'?!?! Sailing is a sport for people who like doing things so for those fat couch potatoes who like watching stuff watch football or something rather then trying to make sailors into circus performers.

Skiffs aren't the only boats around so representative classes from all areas should be covered to find the best performers. I'll eat my own arm off if the Laser is ever dropped. I think the classes in the slots at the moment are about right, but the open classes are very biased towards a mans physique so maybe like there should be a womans skiff (29er/xx??) and a womans multihull?? What do other people think? 



Edited by Roland Butter
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