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wind convergence - divergence |
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tack'ho
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Joined: 08 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1100 |
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Topic: wind convergence - divergencePosted: 13 Feb 06 at 9:55am |
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So are we saying that where we have a cold sea, say early in the seaon, we will find that the wind doesn't change speed and therfore direction. But doesn't that assume that the temp difference is able to take immeadiate affect rather than the air coming off the land being cooled as it passed over the sea. So in effect we would almost see a 'S' as the wind turns right as it accelerates as as the drag decreases as it crosses the coast then swinging left again as it is cooled by the sea temp???
The second question about scale. Its one of those weird things which doesn't quite obey accepted physics. It shouldn't work at small lake and river size butI 'm sure i've seen it (or something) happen even on lakes the size of grafham and over narrow rivers. Now this can't be anything to do with the coriolis force at this scale but somethings going on!! |
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I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
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redback
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Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 06 at 10:37pm |
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I'm sure Mike B is right - but there has to be some explanation of the local effects we expereince every weekend. I'm continually looking for some edge over the opposition and I commonly come upon variations over a distance of a few 100m which I cannot explain. There's very little research made at the resolution we race in except for our own observations. Invariably there is an advantage on one side of the river compared with the other - it could be a million different things but what Knightmare mentioned could be a factor. So I think we should still voice our theories.
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Jon Emmett
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Joined: 15 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 988 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 06 at 8:47pm |
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Unfortunately there is very little in sailing you can consistently predict!!!
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KnightMare
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Joined: 08 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1682 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 06 at 4:51pm |
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Oh fun fun fun. Give me a day and il come up with some kind of answer to that.
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Mike B
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Joined: 12 Feb 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
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Posted: 12 Feb 06 at 4:00pm |
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Hi I'm intrigued by the varied discussion on convergence/divergence. I'm a meteorologist by profession and spent some time looking at such matters a decade or so ago. Knightmares's diagram could have come out of some text books except for two big problems: - Big Problem 1 Temperature. The drawing assumes the wind experiences more drag over land than over water. All things equal that might be the case but temperature differences dominate the atmosphere. Given cooler water than land the opposite will usually be the case and your diagram will then work in reverse. In fact round chilly UK waters the common rule that offshore winds always veer right away from the coast is pretty likely to be wrong. Big Problem 2 Scale. How big is the lake in your drawing? The effects w'ere talking about take at least kilometres and ideally tens of kilometres to work. You're unlikely to see these effects on Grafham Water, you might in the Caspian. Sorry for such an academic tome but I would be interested to hear if anyone thinks they can consistently predict and use coastal convergence (or coastal jets as the 'trade' now likes to call them).
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IanP
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Joined: 13 Apr 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 33 |
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Posted: 08 Feb 06 at 5:26pm |
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... I think that depends on how you feel about Alternatively you could award yourself a |
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Ian Paterson
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KnightMare
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Joined: 08 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1682 |
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Posted: 08 Feb 06 at 5:18pm |
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lol soz about the green it was either that or somethign which was too dark for the arrows to show properly. woohoo |
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IanP
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Joined: 13 Apr 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 33 |
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Posted: 08 Feb 06 at 5:10pm |
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Anyway, thanks, this problem has kept me entertained over the past few days, but its back to the grindstone tomorrow |
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Ian Paterson
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KnightMare
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Posted: 08 Feb 06 at 3:51pm |
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lol yeh my dest is the same I have countless pieces of paper with said diagram drawn from many points of view. I keep on having to take notes into my boss with convergence and divergence written all over them Now lets just see if IanP agrees or do we have to dig out the phys text book and give that explanation and it looks like a get the award for being the "public spirited |
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tack'ho
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Joined: 08 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1100 |
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Posted: 08 Feb 06 at 3:40pm |
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That looks exactly like the scrawl that is covering my desk where real work should be. It could be we are all agreeing for the first time in forum history
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I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
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