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T foil rudders on Cherubs?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: T foil rudders on Cherubs?
    Posted: 27 Dec 05 at 11:10pm

Seems they have transformed the 14, do the Cherubs use them?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 05 at 11:42pm
yes.
is the short answer

there are probibly only about 4-5 boats with them fitted but they are worth having (on the newer designs at least) from what ive heard
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wave Rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 05 at 9:31am
Yep, i've heard they make a massive diffrence on boats which have them and are down to weight. I think in non planing conditions they are a big help too?!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris Noble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 05 at 7:28pm
there are many benifits to them but only more so when planing, from all the info ive had on them they are not benificial in non planing conditions but make the biggest difference in marginal on off planing conditions apparently. I shant go into a schpeel about all the other stuff though unless someone wants my tupence
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Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 05 at 9:24pm
The benefits appear to be less pitching upwind ( especially in light winds and a bit of slop ), and more stability fore and aft - which is not always a good thing.
The major advantage is trapezing upwind in f3+ with both crew well aft, supported by the T-foil lift. There is less drag from the hull due to lower displacement, and this reduction exceeds the extra drag from the T-foil.

The boat is now not very sensitive to crew position trim, the T-foil controls the trim angle. The lift varies hugely with boat speed ( proportional to square of the speed ), and so continuous angle adjustment is required.
Some boats use foils fixed to the blade, adjustment by raking pivot pin, with string/cleat adjustment.

Alternatives are adjustable angle foils, controlled by twisting tiller extensions.





twin extensions rotate shaft attached to drum attached to cable attached to crank attached to long push rod inside blade attached to lever arm attached to shaft attached to foil blades . - simple really !

This setup enables the blade to be fully retracted for launching etc.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 05 at 10:16pm
Not that im planning on building one anytime soon but whilst we're on the topic, do you think a bistro style hull would benefit from a Tee?
They dont have quite the same pitchpole issues as the narrow P7 style hulls which seems to be the main reaosn the 14s use them but if you think its the lift upwind thats the main advantage then surely a fat hull would bennefit as much?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 05 at 2:08pm
The narrow P7 has less of a pitchpole issue than the blunt-bowed bistro type. The narrow entry angle, carried right up to gunwale level means that it pierces the waves, without much slowing down. You can dip the bow, and still sail fast, and wait for the bow to pop up again.
I havn't done a real pitchpole in my P7 ( but i do know a man who can pitchpole his in a f3! ) It seems to help if the crew stays back if the nose dips, instead of running forward up the gunwales, and then flying round the front.

The upwind lift should benefit the wider hulls too.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote andy_cherub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 05 at 9:46am

I have a T-foil on Aqua, shes a P7. Makes SO much difference - twining upwind, both myself and crew in rear fruit loops - you feel the acceleration as you put it on! It enabled us to pace a windsurfer upwind, one of these big roached sail jobbies with the bak of his sail flipping off.

http://www.sailingsource.com/cherub/dokuwiki/doku.php/aquama rina 

My foil has a very long span & quite a thick chord, so its ideal for lighter winds where I can get upto 8knots boat speed and have full foil on, twining as far back as poss & max lift!! So im now designing another foil to use in around 20knots of wind which will be alot smaller, due to the current foil needing to be eased off, and causing more drag. Where as a smaller foil will be on full angle and less drag!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote andy_cherub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 05 at 9:49am
& oh, Aquas & Primals foils are very easy to make - fixed "T" on the rudder blade and just knock the rudder stock back and forth! No little fiddly bits to go wrong, sorry Andy, not aimed at you, but if I tried making yours Id prob Fek it up!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris Noble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 05 at 10:05am
yeh i was going to say that next, my old foil on the moth was fixed and as are most low rider t foils and they have there own benifits when it comes to inducing planing aswell quite technical but just cause they are fixed does not mean to say they are at a disadvantage
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