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Olympic 'finals' proposal

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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Olympic 'finals' proposal
    Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 12:38pm

Cheeky...

The Firefly still is a single-hander - there is an annual single-handed event and I believe that you can compete in all events as a nautical onanist - as long as you sail alone in all races

Dragon - those who can afford it are  sailing the ex-Olympic boat rather than other classes

Sharpie - at least they have international events

THe 470 was INTENDED as a popular boat - but then poor class management did little to protect the grass-root saolors

Aluminium is re-cyclable - Stars can continue sailing using recycled metal from broken masts topped up with re-cycled beer cans (or vote for a carbon mast.

FDs and Tempest - never popular in GB where sailing is increasingly seen as a sport for small competitors

The crew may think a lot is happening on a 49er (I am sure cricketers think they are very busy) but for the spectator there is not a lot going on

 

Gordon

 

 

Gordon
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Jamie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 12:22pm

Originally posted by Cheeky

 



• The FD worlds still get a fair few boats,

- 10 boats at this years nationals. 

Yes we had 10 boats at our Nationals.

But read what you quote. Our worlds did have a "fair few boats."

83 In Hungary this year, a fantastic event.

94 in Germany last time round.

 

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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 12:10pm

Elmo's concern's about the influence of rule breaking and umpiring are justified. The rules give no redress for the victims of an infringment if there is no damage, or action is taken under rule 2 or 69.1(b).

There will still be requests for redress if a boat is holed (suffers damage). The fair sailing rule will be tested to the limit. My feeling is that the sport does not need an event which seems sure to produce a crop of Rule 69 disqualifications. Do we really want the majority of cases of gross misconduct to take place in the Olympic final in full view of the world TV audience.

We will probably need an umpire boat per competitor - with 2 umpires and a supervisor per boat! We won't see the racing merely a melee of RIBS.

A further point - the number of qualified umpires for fleet racing is exactly zero...as this function does not yet exist. The number of international judges in whom competitors have confidence to judge Rule 42 correctly is already limited. There will be some interesting moments in forthcoming events.

 

Gordon

 

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hayres Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 11:56am

Now they have changed Olympic fleet racing when will isaf get the pressure onto the open 60's.  You could race single handed around the world.  And then the first three back could race around a triangle in port race to see who is the winner.

It al seems weired and doesnt make a lot of sense.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote elmo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 11:47am
What will happen about Protests/damage?

If this race is worth double points AND is non-discardable competitors will be pushing to the limits.  What do you say to the boat that gets holed on the start line, and therefore loses its medal?

And on the water umpiring, this is going to cause far more unrest about some getting turns and others not, were they biased, etc etc,etc..

It all sounds liek a very bad idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cheeky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 11:22am
• Firefly

- was a single hander. so much for one design. (lol)

• The Dragon

- far more millionaires around now.

• The Sharpie, active fleets in Norfolk and Holland

- hardly a great Ad.

• The FD worlds still get a fair few boats,

- 10 boats at this years nationals.

The Tempest (the ultimate heavyweight trapeze class)

- 45 boats at the Worlds. compair that to the Fireballs.

• And I am convinced that the Star would continue if  they ever find an
acceptable substitute

- theres not enough aluminum left in the world to cope with the mast
breakages (lol)

• Apart from the Laser and the 470, none of the present boats were ever
intended to be popular mass appeal boats.

- 470 mass appeal? case in point.

• It was Bob Fisher who said recently that sailing should not be shown
live. Edited highlights are a much better way of presenting the sport.

- yes with the current race format.

• There are other sports in which nothing much happens for long
periods...

- tell that to a 49er crew!
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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 05 at 7:50pm

Bumble may lack some historical perspective - the Firefly was an Olympic boat in 1948 and is still going strong. The Dragon of course is now more popular than when it was an Olympic boat - as is the Int 5.5m. The 12 sq m Sharpie still has active fleets in Norfolk and Holland

The FD worlds still get a fair few boats, as does the Tempest (the ultimate heavyweight trapeze class) and even the Soling. And I am convinced that the Star would continue if  they ever find an acceptable substitute.

Apart from the Laser and the 470, none of the present boats were ever intended to be popular mass appeal boats.

It was Bob Fisher who said recently that sailing should not be shown live. Edited highlights are a much better way of presenting the sport.

There are other sports in which nothing much happens for long periods... cycle road racing, cricket for instance. They only become interesting because there is so much to commentate on outside the central event, and because the production team make much use of analysis, infill material (history of the event, the fruit cake they had for tea..), action replay etc. Doesn't seem to work for sailing.

 

Gordon

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gordon
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Bumble View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 05 at 4:14pm

And thats just touching the recent classes. I can't think of 1 class whaich has fared well out of olympic selection and the FD tale will bring a tear to any sailors eyes.

I know this thread is now a pointless 900+ posts long but to just pick up on one of the older points made......... I love sailing and I love watching sport on TV - I have never ever seen any sailing on TV which was entertaining, and every Olympics I appologise to my none sailing friends and make excuses that sailing really is exciting.

To reitterate, sailing in the Olympics is crap and unsuitable, doing nothing for the sport and nothing for the good of the games.

If I had to propose a class/format change it would be to sail in 1 class only, open to both sexes, match or team racing......knock out ladder.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 05 at 2:39pm

Originally posted by Bumble

It strikes me the olympic selection is the kiss of death for any class in the UK.

Lasers seem pretty unaffected as grassroots class - possibly a special case. Europes initially had an strong upsurge in interest, then fell away, at least in part for the reasons you suggest. Finns and Tornados survive as a grassroots classes here and there. In general though, I agree it's not obvious why a class would want Olympic selection. Selection followed by deselection is the nightmare scenario for a class. Without the Olympics, the Europe would probably still be going nicely as a niche lightweight/youth/women's class, as it was before selection. Having been selected then dropped, the outlook is bleak, since all the grassroots sailors have long gone.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 05 at 2:15pm

Dinghy sailing is a unique sport where the pinnacle cannot be reached by winning in 1 class, whatever the event is. To be considered a master you must be a multiple champ in many classes over many years.

All that happends with the Olympiic classes is that the olympics becomes the unofficial world champs. It strikes me the olympic selection is the kiss of death for any class in the UK...... why would anyone want to compete in a class where the only way to be the champ is to become a pro sailor and devote 5 years to a potentially fruitless campain.

Face it..... olympic sailing show cases nothing, is crap on TV and does nothing for grass roots sailing except present the sport as an elitist, expensive, boring white mans hobbie horse. None of which it is(or needs to be).

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