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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 Sep 05 at 5:05pm

Originally posted by Steve Clark

Other old classes, like the I-14 have made similar weight reductions.

Equally, the Merlins have been very cautious about it in order to avoid obsoleting the fleet, and they have been going from strength to strength in the last few years. I don't think there is one formula that works for all classes. You've really got to understand what the sailors in the class get out of it, and what kind of people are realistically likely to come into the class and what they want.

While taking a bit of weight out will certainly make the boats faster, I find it hard to believe it is likely to transform downwind tactics. There again, I've never sailed an IC.

To answer your question: would it attract me to the class? No, it would probably put me off, because I'd want to start in a 2nd-hand boat to get a feel for the class, but those would now be totally outclassed by newer lighter boats.  
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 05 at 5:27pm

Shame to hear that the IC & AC sailors can't work together ...

Peoples loyalty to a class is worse than religion ...

I'd agree with Stefan; dropping the weight by such a large % will make those entering the class in 2nd hand boats even less competitive; and as such would put me off ...

Rick
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Chris Noble View Drop Down
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Posts: 710 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris Noble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 05 at 6:06pm
you could run a sort of internal handicap system that all development classes run to make older boats still potentially competitive...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 05 at 5:57pm

Hi guys
Not being a canoe sailor i was unaware of the rift between the conventional and the kite guys.  I very much like to see development in all classes and i think its great how sailing has evolved within each class over the years.  I thought it was great when the canoe opted to have a kite and i also like the boat just as much without it.  However maybe this is where the problem emerges, maybe the devolpments are too fast.  A 20 kilo drop is a huge amount of weight reduction in one go much like adding the size of kite they did (sorry im not aware of the actual size, looks pretty big tho).  I wonder if the people in the class who suggested the weight drop are worried about the class fading in popularity against boats like the int. moth now with hydro's.  If this is the case then i think its maybe unwarrented.  Ok yes there are boats that seem to be developing quickly but then look at how many years classes like the moth and int 14 and cherub play with the ideas before really making anything of them. 
Im very much for an overall weight reduction that is being presented but spread it out over the years, make the boats gradually lighter. 
And to all the Kite guys and conventional guys, stick together! you've got an amazing boat on ur hands but not sticking together is much more likely to put people off the boat than anything else!
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Steve Clark View Drop Down
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Posts: 38 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve Clark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 05 at 2:36pm

Working at staying together. Many successful marriages require separate bedrooms, particularly for older couples!

SHC
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Chris Noble View Drop Down
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Posts: 710 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris Noble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 05 at 7:50pm

good example

 
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Doug Lord View Drop Down
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Posts: 66 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Doug Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 05 at 6:49pm
The "Australian and American" proposal also includes wording that -apparently- allows a rudder t-foil (like the 14) but prohibits full flying foils. It seems to me that while the lightening up proposal is a great idea it seems premature to me to ban full flying hydrofoils especially when the numbers show the potential of the lighter boat foiling is greater than the Moth on foils.Perhaps there could be a vote on foils after, say, a year or two trial period on a couple of new boats? What do the rest of you think?
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 05 at 7:45pm

Originally posted by Doug Lord

What do the rest of you think?

I think this board has a very different atmosphere to Sailing Anarchy and I'd rather keep it that way. Anyone who has followed SA will understand what I mean. You have already posted at length on this subject in Steve's thread there and the debate has descending to the usual "yah-boo" mudslinging. While you personally seem quite civil, hijacking other people's threads to ride personal hobby-horses - in your case foils - invites this kind of response. Please don't start it here. 
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Posts: 66 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Doug Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 05 at 7:59pm
Actually, while I like foils I have been interested in the IC for over thirty years and love the class. Mr. Clark has posted his proposal-to one degree or another- on SA, boatdesign.net, the IC forum and this forum. Since he did not mention the rudder t-foil -and attendent restrictions- part of the proposal on any opening post and only in his second post on SA I thought it was -and is -an important question.
If it is hijacking a thread to raise an important and somehow overlooked part of a major class rule change then so be it. I don't think it is because I'm trying hard to understand the thinking on this proposal and I believe that the thread cannot be properly understood without the knowledge of what ELSE is on the table in this "Australian and American" draft rule change.
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Isis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2753 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 05 at 8:43pm
I personaly cant see the IC, let alone the AC fairing too well on foils... Even if they are light enough to be flown I cant see you getting enough fore-and-aft movement to have much effect on pitch whilst sat on the end of the sliding seat.

Anyone who has seen the moths when they let the foil break the surface of the water will know about the crash landings they experiance. Being sat on the end of a plank is not somewhere id like to be when that happens.

The canoe already has a reputation for being too hard to sail for most people, adding foils will just discourage more people from joining the class.

But back on topic now....
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