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the best boat ever

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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Aug 05 at 8:31am

Originally posted by TonyL

tend to agree, if we define "best" as in some way related to popularity

I don't. There would be absolutely no point in defining in an objective way like that, since there would then be nothing to say. If it's popularity, then it's the Sunfish. End of story, end of thread.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote TonyL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 05 at 9:29pm
Originally posted by hurricane

the best boat ever in the UK has to be the laser, has anyother boat ever sold that many?


Tend to agree, if we define "best" as in some way related to popularity though if we used that measure then we might be considering Toppers, Mirrors, and the Sunfish too!

It's easy to knock the foibles of the Laser and yes it does seem dated now. However, it seemed amazing when it first hit the UK as it was relatively inexpensive for the performance,  but it was as tough as old boots too compared to the flaky stuff like Toys, Bonitos, and Minisails many of us were sailing.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 05 at 4:15pm

I was shocked to ear how Dragons have gone , near here they travell every year fas part of their uk circuit, but there are no longer any locals racing , from what i hear they have become , rich boys toys and fully specced up can hit rediculous tens of thousands (had herd 70 K ) , when you see them with their tailor made road racing trailers pulled by bmw 4 x 4's, Full hull covers , etc etc , and learn you have one for UK and one for euro circuit it would be hard to compete at top .

Though i expect this beautiful dinosaur would be extinct otherwise, and these guys are keeping a leg end going.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 05 at 3:44pm
I also doubt the current crop of sportsboats will become classics. Generally, manufacturer-led classes don't last very long because it is in the manufacturer's interest to come up with something new. I mentioned those classes because we had diverted into prices.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 05 at 3:13pm

Why are Dragons more expensive... partly a bit more  boat that is a bit more difficult to build, especially to make a plastic boat within the rules that is as stiff as a cold-moulded (now you're talking expensive!), partly because owners expect very high standards in building and service, partly due to lack of competition amongst builders (this may change)...and probably because the market accepts the price!

We were talking about "best boats ever" - the 1720's, Melges etc are good boats but I am not sure that they will become classic classes - still with us in 75 years time!

 

Gordon

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 05 at 11:52am

Originally posted by gordon

I would contend that Dragon's get used a lot more than your average cruiser

I'd agree, but so would a modern sportsboat like a 1720, Melges 24 or 707 whose new price less than half a Dragon's. Not as pretty, that is true. In all seriousness, I don't understand why new Dragons are so hugely expensive. Why is a Dragon 50% more expensive than an Etchells from the same builder?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 05 at 11:30am

Didn't say it wasn't expensive, but seeing the number of new 30ft+ cruisers around it would seem that somebody can afford them.

I would contend that Dragon's get used a lot more than your average cruiser (a figure of some 10 days use per year for the average cruiser, springs to mind)

 

Gordon

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 05 at 11:23am

Originally posted by gordon

Dragons tend to race a lot so the price per day's sailing is not that extraordinary. Certainly a lot cheaper than buying a new cruiser.

The new price is pretty comparable to that of a 30 foot cruiser actually.

If you think this kind of sailing isn't expensive, you are either rich or crew and don't see all the bills!

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 05 at 11:01am

The Laser - not one of Bruce Kirby's prettiest boats. His I14's were beautiful.

Probably the leader in the single-handed mass production, outrageously expensive, specifically designed to give physiotherapists lots of work, but with a very well organised and influential class association category.

.The Laser became a world class boat because it was very intelligently marketed to sailing schools, clubs and especially national sailing associations.

If the design brief for the Laser was put out to competition today a far better, more comfortable and cheaper boat would probably result.

Gordon

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 05 at 10:53am

Dragons tend to race a lot so the price per day's sailing is not that extraordinary. Certainly a lot cheaper than buying a new cruiser.

Also they don't deppreciate that fast.

I sailed a boat last year - brand new, ready to race with main, 2 jibs, 2 spis + fully equipped road trailer,delivered to Dublin + a days tuning and training. I think the price was 90,000 euros.A lot of money

But then even a lightly used Dragon will  race 45 days a year, the boat will remain competitive for 10 years - that is 450 days or 200 euros per day, not allowing for re-sale value (say 30,000 euros) maintenace and sails.

What does cost a lot is towing the boat all over Europe... but the Dragon still probably gives the best value for money of any of the International keelboat classes.

And with a second hand boat you can still do well (except in heavy weather with a big sea) with an older boat.

 

Gordon

What doe

 

Gordon
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