Fastest dinghy?

Mea culpa about the UK F 18 places. And you're dead right that the Brit dinghy sailors (and the skiff sailors) are kicking our arses in most classes at the moment.
But when you look at my post, remember that it was written in answer to one which said "the Tornado has cleaned up on handicap so whoever said that doesn't know what he is talking about". The fact remains that Ts don't "clean up" on our handicap against guys like the world champs in As, F18, etc.

And Scooby, you posted on Catsailor that "I'm having an 'interesting' 'discussion' with some skiff sailors won't believe that a Tornado is faster than a skiff".

That makes it sound a bit like we're being unreasonable. Can I point out that;

(1) I for one sail cats- and one with an almost identical yardstick to yours -not skiffs.

(2) The only evidence anyone can come up on the T v 18 question is; (a) a reaching race in SF between the 18 "Colour 7" and a C Class. The C allegedly won (and surely everyone would expect it to). The Colour 7 team retired about '82 and the SF series was even earlier IIRC. What a 20 year old reaching race  between a C and an 18 has to do with current Ts on a normal course, I'm not sure.

(b) there's also the allegations about how Ts blast past 18s, which I've heard about. However, the fact is that the T handicap has only changed 3 points since the days when (as recognised by yardsticks) they were slower all-round than an 18. 18s have also improved since those days in most conditions. However, all anyone's been able to find is big fish stories; n ot hard evidence.

(c) in the race (C '88) between the C Class Victoria 150, the 18s and Ts with and without kites, the racing between the best kite T and the best 18s was very close. I was reading an article about it in an old mag the other day. There was 17 seconds between the best kite T and the best 18. The 18 gained downwind on hte C and the Ts. This is information, directly from Rob Brown who was skippering the top 18. Both classes have developed a lot since then of course. The top kiteless Ts were never in the race after the first mark.

Given the information; the small change in yardsticks and the race results on one hand, and nothing but unsubstantiated claims on the other; I don't think I'm being unreasonable in saying "I'm still open ont h e question although I tend to favour the skiff."

 reaching race between

intresting comment on Yardstick.  Very few t's (or prolly 18's) are sailed on yardstick.  The tornado on SCHRS has gone from 1 as a classic to 0.94 (6.3% faster)

 

http://www.schrs.com/schrsratings.asp?id=newcat

This is why we use measurement handicaps for cats

 

Edited by Scooby_simon

measurement handicaping works well for cats because they essentially all work the same and so a sum based on general dimentions will give a fair reflection af realative speeds.  For dinghies I would argue that the vastly different hull forms possible that could still have the same basic dimentions, can produce significantly different speeds round the cans.  To this end usuing a purely measurement based system will not work as well, short of trying to quatify things like planing area. 

The other problem is things like how boats performance changes with windspeed.  The most dramatic example must be the flying int. moths, below flight speeds they will be at best as fast as normal ones.  Above it though, and they are significantly faster.  Now I kow this is going down the american route, and it has been discussed elsewher but I am really warming to that idea. 

there isnt  a chance in hell in a well sailed spitfire keeping up with a well sailed modern tornado unless it is blowing old boots and the tornado isnt using its kite!!!!

There is no way round it.  Handicap racing is not nearly as good as class racing, but pursuit racing can be fun and its much better for the spectators.