Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Protrim speed indicator |
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lozza ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 262 |
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Does anybody know where i can get hold of one of these speedometers which attach to the leading edge of the dagger board (for training purposes only). I remember seeing them adverties many years ago but does anybody know if they are still available or if there is a similar product on the market? |
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Life's a reach, then you gybe
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Guest ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
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I had one of those sitting in the garage, just sold it on ebay last week;
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timnoyce ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 05 Aug 04 Location: Hampshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
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i'd suggest maybe a handheld gps. that way you can take it with you all the time and not need to worry about any drag!
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BEARFOOT DESIGN
Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
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lozza ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 262 |
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Slight price difference tho with GPS, the protrim can also be used for judging tides. GPS is a little luxurious for improving boat speed. Rick, did you find it useful at all? |
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Life's a reach, then you gybe
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49erGBR735HSC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
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The Garmin GPS is meant to be really good although it cost £100-£200. The Protrim will probably be the equivalent to sailing with a damaged centreboard and not really good in general. Could cause more problems than it solves.
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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If you enjoy looking at the numbers to know how fast you are going, that's fine. If you want to learn about boat tune, forget it. The numbers change on every wave and in every gust. You need the budget of an AC campaign to be able to tune a boat from instruments. For example: 1000m beat. A big gain from a tuning change would be a couple of boatlengths, which is something around 10m. That is 1%. Boats go to windward at, very roughly 5 knots, with the speed oscillating +/ 0.2 knots (at least) as you take waves. That's four times your 1% tuning gain, so it is completely lost in the noise. Take it from someone who has spent thousands of hours helming yachts racing offshore, staring at the 20/20s. You can't tune a boat off instruments: the only thing sensitive enough is another boat to compare to.
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lozza ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 262 |
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So measuring how quickly you regain speed after tacking is not going to work with a speedo??? My idea of the protrim is not to constantly see how fast ur going but to improve speed through manouvres. I am well aware that two boat training is the best way to improve boat speed, except its not too handy if ur the only boat of ur class at a club. Planing boats shouldn't have as much speed variation through the water as heavy yachts do anyway. I'm not convinced by GPS over short distances, its very accurate over 8-9 meters but improving the speed through a tack in a dinghy should be done in less than this distance. Also GPS only gives you speed over land, being a member of a club with relatively strong tidal currents means that this is not as good an indication as speed over water measurement |
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Life's a reach, then you gybe
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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That would work.
I've sailed both and the opposite is true. Yachts are heavy and therefore it takes a fair amount to speed them up and slow them down. Dinghies accelerate and declerate quickly by comparison. In most dinghies, you can tack and tack back on a 30 second windshift and gain. If you did the same in a yacht, you'd grind to a halt. |
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Granite ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 May 04 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 476 |
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I would say that the opposite is true especialy as you go up wind and drop on and off the plane as you get in and out of the groove. A GPS could be useful over the course of a leg if you waypoint the windward mark then you can look at your VMG as you change from fast and low to pinching to try and work out the change points, never tried though |
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If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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Well I have tried and it doesn't work for the same reasons tuning on a boatspeed indicator doesn't work. If you turn the damping to something around seconds, the VMG dances all over the place. If you turn the damping to minutes, the breeze is never 100% steady for that long. Not all hand-helds let you change the damping anyway but the units yachts have usually do. The point is changes you get from tuning are very small compared to the changes constantly caused by other factors. The only way you could make it work is record all the data (breeze speed & direction, speed, VMG, sheet settings, rig settings) and shoreside, feed it into a computer, average it out over weeks of testing and try to make sense of it. That is what the AC teams do but it is completely outside the resources the rest of us have available. Two-boat tuning is the way to go. That works because, if you do it right, both boats experience the same changes to the breeze etc. and therefore you can make conclusions about the results of tuning changes. Have you noticed that the successfully AC and Volvo campaigns now almost invariably have at least two boats? Allowing two-boat tuning is one major reason for spending all that extra $$$$.
Edited by Stefan Lloyd |
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