Laser2000 vs RS Vision

Originally posted by Riki @ RS The engineering that goes into rotomoulding has leaped ahead in the last 5 years. It is far from in its infancy, and I invite anyone who thinks the tooling is cheap and low tech to come and see the set-up for the Feva and Vision. The mould is individually temperature controlled in compartments and the machine and computer that rotomoulds is constantly adaptive to the heating and cooling variables. Its impressive stuff and staggeringly expensive to tool up. The actual design of the boat itself has to overcome some pretty intense factors too - such as the torsional rigidity issues (no bulkhead stiffeners in a plastic boat) so its only recently that a boat holding proper rig tension (like a Vision or Omega) has been possible. Should anyone require more information on the Vision or indeed the thought process that has gone into any aspect of the design, then drop me a mail Riki@rssailing.com

Riki - just a question - what is the typical rig tension you would envisage on the Vision compared to the RS400 & RS800...

CHeers.

Yes, I think the 2000 is a good boat.  Its a trainer asymmetric or a good racer for the less agile and probably a good cruiser in places like Chichester Harbour.  The RS200 is a different kettle of fish, fast for its size, agile and good in the light stuff and probably quite a handful for a couple of light wieghts.  Don't criticise a boat for having too much freeboard when climbing in - just let it heel over a bit!

Strange that the RS people are selling the vision against the Laser 2000 rather than the RS200.  I always thought the RS200 was the RS version of the L2k - only nicer; lighter, twitchier and that bit faster too (beer gut permitting).

The L2k is indeed very popular and it's good to race.  But it's a great big heavy tub too.  The freeboard is so high that hiking is uncomfortable and getting in after a capsize can need arms like Sinbad (big big pull over the high slippery side).  Being fairly stable, it takes a lot to heel it over, but due to the deck design, takes even more to pull it back.  RS200 any time. 

Better still, get a trapeze boat - especially if it's recyclable!!!!!!

 

Originally posted by maxim Originally posted by Mike278 the laser vago. I saw it being tested on saturday, and it was overtaking a 29er, but it was being sailed better, but i don't know what it would be like in light winds (it was force 6 on saturday) Was that the plastic version - or still the prototype though? They did say it was much faster than they ever thought it would be...

It was the plastic version, which they were trying to destroy, so i think it is in the final stages of testing

Ladies and Gents

We have read with interest here at RS Racing since this thread was introduced to us last week.

This question was originally posted by someone who was making a decision on spending five thousand pounds of their hard earned. Whilst most of the replies posted here are really useful, does this buyer not deserve advice based on sound knowledge and experience rather than inaccuracies?

Some input from inside RS:

The Vision has proved sigificantly quicker than the Laser 2000. This was how is was designed. The provisional handicap is 1078, but this is likely to drop as time goes on. Well sailed Visions have been staying alarmingly close to mediocre handled RS400s when racing - does this answer the acid test? However, you shouldn't get hooked on the speed thing.. these boats are not orientated for this. We know how to build fast, demanding boats and supply the top of the pyramid of sailors in the world. The Vision gives everybody else a whole heap of the performance, for a small slice of the demand and outlay. Its still an RS, so its handling is still RS-like and its performance is more than acceptable for most.

The engineering that goes into rotomoulding has leaped ahead in the last 5 years. It is far from in its infancy, and I invite anyone who thinks the tooling is cheap and low tech to come and see the set-up for the Feva and Vision. The mould is individually temperature controlled in compartments and the machine and computer that rotomoulds is constantly adaptive to the heating and cooling variables. Its impressive stuff and staggeringly expensive to tool up. The actual design of the boat itself has to overcome some pretty intense factors too - such as the torsional rigidity issues (no bulkhead stiffeners in a plastic boat) so its only recently that a boat holding proper rig tension (like a Vision or Omega) has been possible. The end product typically costs just 65-75% of its glassfibre alternative.

In terms of comparison, the Vision is much closer to the Laser 2000 than, say, an Omega, which is really into Wayfarer/Stratos territory. The Vision is about 6 inches longer (to give bigger cockpit) and, even though its Polyethylene, is just 4 kilos heavier in terms of sailing weight (hairy monster - your stats were spot on!). It has a slightly larger rig (especially gennaker) and its stability is similar. We purposefully designed in a little less stability to maintain an 'RS' feel, and also because we know that high topsides (for secure feeling in the cockpit) means that theres lots of reserve buoyancy to save you should the boat heel over.

There are some repair based concerns with Polyethylene which is slightly unfounded. Plastic repairs are possible and not difficult - its just a different technique. Scratches and scuffs can be removed (though dents are more difficult) but don't forget they are significantly more robust in the first place.

The Laser 2000 has been around for much longer so inevitably there will be some more established fleets. Given time, the Vision will have the same.

Class Associations need members to be formed. We already have the basis for a committee and rule structure set up, it just requires a critical mass of owners to get things going. No, Carshalton FC, this doesn't jeopardise the strength of the class at this time.

The demand for Visions is currently unprecedented and this affects residual values as used boats are more immediately available. However, don't underestimate how much people enjoy buying brand new toys. Time and time again I hear people making the comparison between used fibreglass and new plastic and the conclusion is that where you can have a product brand new that performs, handles and reacts in an identical if not better way for the same price, why wouldn't you? Of course the Laser 2000 is fabulous and has recently re-established itself as more of a racer (it never used to be marketted this way), so these bigger fleets will always create good demand for boats. Our experience would suggest that the reason for this previous domination (and therefore strong residuals) was based on the fast that there was little alternative. Now this has changed, inevitably so will the values of used boats.

Should anyone require more information on the Vision or indeed the thought process that has gone into any aspect of the design, then drop me a mail Riki@rssailing.com