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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 May 23 at 8:25pm
Competitor B needs to inform the race office that he/she is retiring from the race, having broken a rule and not taken a penalty.



Edited by JimC - 08 May 23 at 8:26pm
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2547 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 23 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by Bandin

Originally posted by 2547

Originally posted by 423zero

I wouldn't give room at the finish line, you would go from first to second (assuming you were in the lead).

Why not?  Rule 18. Mark room. 

You're not obliged to give room at the start.. are you at the finish?


Yes. 
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Posts: 189 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Fatboi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 8:57am
Yes you do have to give room at the finish
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 8:58am
I have read through all the links off this thread, finish line more ambiguous than the start line. I personally wouldn't cut someone off, but I probably wouldn't change course to let them through.
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 9:13am
There are very few ambiguities in the RRS.

Please quote one or more passages from the RRS that that you think may give rise to doubts that a mark designating an end of a finishing line is a mark at which rule 18 does not apply to boats finishing.
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 12:04pm
There doesn't appear to be a finish line specific paragraph, start line does. I haven't found a sentence saying finish line marks are the same as turn marks. The paragraph if it is written should say marks either end of the finish line are treated the same as turn marks, even a shortened finish. No ambiguity in that, but I have probably missed something and happy to be corrected.
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 1:25pm
Correct.   There is no ambiguity.

Rule 18.1 says

Rule 18 applies between boats when they are required to leave
a mark on the same side and at least one of them is in the zone.

followed by four exceptions, (a) to (d), which are irrelevant here.

The Preamble to Section C then contains a further exception

Section C rules do not apply at a starting mark surrounded by navigable
water or at its anchor line from the time boats are approaching them to
start until they have passed them.

Rule 18 makes no distinction whether a mark is a 'turn' mark (whateverthat is), a rounding mark, a high mark, a low mark or any other sort of mark, as long as boats are required to leave it on the same side.

So the only relevant exception is a starting mark surrounded by navigable water.

A finishing mark is not a starting mark.

An outside boat is required to give mark room in accordance with rule 18.

Edited by Brass - 09 May 23 at 1:28pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Originally posted by 423zero

I haven't found a sentence saying finish line marks are the same as turn marks.

It would be an unnecessary complication, and the rule writers are very keen to keep the rules as simple as possible. Its very tempting, when writing rules (which is a much harder rask than people think) to make them very specific, but the more specific they get the more chance there is of loopholes. So rather than listing different types of mark RRS 18 applies to every mark with the one specific exception of start marks surrounded by navigable water - and note the navigable water part - it still applies, for instance on start marks at the edge of a channel that you can't sail the wrong side of.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 2:04pm
Makes sense put that way, all marks except start marks (with navigable water). By turn marks I meant rounding marks, (I was doing two things at once).

Edited by 423zero - 09 May 23 at 2:04pm
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 23 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by 423zero

I haven't found a sentence saying finish line marks are the same as turn marks.

It would be an unnecessary complication, and the rule writers are very keen to keep the rules as simple as possible. Its very tempting, when writing rules (which is a much harder rask than people think) to make them very specific, but the more specific they get the more chance there is of loopholes. So rather than listing different types of mark RRS 18 applies to every mark with the one specific exception of start marks surrounded by navigable water - and note the navigable water part - it still applies, for instance on start marks at the edge of a channel that you can't sail the wrong side of.


Probably not rule 18. That's probably going to be a continuing obstruction, so it's going to be rule 19.
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